State Establishment of Religion

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by usfan, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    As a rule of thumb, if the government wants you to know it, it probably isn't true. ~Craig Murray

    Why, in a nation allegedly dedicated to NON ESTABLISHMENT of religion, would the institutions of govt dedicate themselves to exclusive Indoctrination of a religio/philosophical belief?

    For decades, the courts and legislatures have worked tirelessly to ban any suggestion of a Creator, and promote EXCLUSIVELY, the belief in atheistic naturalism. State run schools, aka, Indoctrination centers, ban any mention of a Creator, except as fodder for ridicule and mocking. Only atheistic naturalism, and their core beliefs, are taught and presented as 'settled science!', until the hapless indoctrinees nod like bobbleheads, and bow in humble obeisance to the decrees of the High Priests of Atheism

    The whole educational and professional training system is a very elaborate filter, which just weeds out people who are too independent, and who think for themselves, and who don't know how to be submissive, and so on -- because they're dysfunctional to the institutions. ~Noam Chomsky

    A fascinating historical study is the progressive hijacking of the judicial and legislative branches to mandate their agenda, and to censor any opposition.

    The teaching of universal common ancestry is one such example.

    At the turn of the 19th century, progressivism was taking off, as an ideological worldview. The theory of universal common descent was an integral part of this worldview, and provided the naturalistic basis needed.

    Dewey, Wilson, Sanger, Roosevelt, and many other progressives sought to bring the superstitious, backward nation into the 20th century, where their goal of a collectivist utopia could be realized. Marx and Darwin were constantly referenced, by the early progressives.

    But the Christian convictions were strong, in middle America, and they could not get their agenda of exclusive control of religious/philosophical concepts in those areas. The cities and coasts were easy, and progressive ideology became the standard in academia.

    Most laws, regarding topics of educational instruction, were minimal.. It was left to locales to set curriculum, and religious instruction was common. Prayers were often offered to God, and biblical themes were commonly taught.

    Note the following judicial timeline. It clearly shows the slow transition from a God centered, traditional American values ideology, into a naturalistic one, where any alternate expressions of philosophical belief are banned. ..under the pretense of 'science!'
    • 1925- the state of Tennessee passes a law banning the teaching of evolution in public school. It went to court, in what has been called the 'Scopes monkey trial'. Many other states followed suit, banning the teaching of evolution. The tennessee law was upheld initially.
    • 1967 – Tennessee repeals the Butler Act, the law that banned the teaching of evolution in public schools.
    • 1968 – In Epperson v. Arkansas, the Supreme Court strikes down an Arkansas law banning the teaching of evolution.
    • 1973 – Tennessee passes a law requiring that public schools give equal emphasis to "the Genesis account in the Bible" along with other theories about the origins of man. The 'Equal Time' law.
    • 1975 – Tennessee's "equal time" law is declared unconstitutional by a federal appeals court.
    • 1982 — In McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education, a U.S. district judge strikes down an Arkansas law that required public schools to give "balanced treatment" to evolution and creationism whenever either was taught.
    • 1987 – In Edwards v. Aguillard, the Supreme Court rules that a Louisiana law requiring public schools to give "balanced treatment" to creationism and evolution is unconstitutional.
    • 1990 - In Webster v. New Lenox School District, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals found that a school district may prohibit a teacher from teaching creation science.
    • 1994, in Peloza v. Capistrano School District, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a district court finding that a teacher's First Amendment right to free exercise of religion is not violated by a school district's requirement that evolution be taught in biology classes.
    • 2005 - in Selman et al. v. Cobb County School District et al., U.S. District Judge Clarence Cooper ruled that a evolution warning label required in Cobb County textbooks violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. The disclaimer stickers stated, "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered."
    This trend has continued and intensified, and the only ideology allowed in public education is atheistic naturalism.

    Notice the dates. In 1925, the pinnacle of the progressive movement, they used the courts to demand an equal voice for teaching an atheistic, naturalistic view of the universe. Then, there is a long period of silence from the courts, as the world war raged, & God was appealed to & acknowledged in every aspect of US culture. Prayers were publicly offered 'for the boys', and the nation had an appearance of deep spirituality and piety. Less than a decade after WW2, they put 'under God' in the pledge of allegiance. 'In God we trust' was the official motto, put on money, & adopted in 1956, the waning years of this short interruption in progressive domination.

    The commie witch hunts? It was a feeble attempt to rid American culture of anti American, destructive influences, & is now hailed by progressives everywhere (who are more sympathetic to the communists) as 'hate crime', & bigotry.

    By the 70's, Darwinian theory had become dominant, but was not content with equal footing with a supernatural view of origins & the universe, but demanded a monopoly.. they were to become the ONLY view allowed by the courts, in the state run indoctrination centers, aka public schools.

    Education is not merely neglected in many of our schools today, but is replaced to a great extent by ideological indoctrination. ~Thomas Sowell

    ..and here we are.. unwitting dupes to State Mandated Religious Indoctrination..
     
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  2. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is an excellent summation of where we are in America today! Thanks for bringing it together Usfan!
     
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  3. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    WTF?

    Are you stuck home and searching for something to rile people up?

    Christ
     
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  4. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    Just the usual nonsense, cut and paste from many other threads.

    In fact, given many people are stuck at home with nothing to, there will likely be an increase in this sort of thing. We need to get the mods ready for Covid-19!
     
  5. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    usfan, I can't figure out what you are a proponent of......
     
  6. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    Is this supposed to rebut any of my points?
    :roll:

    I am very busy with many irons in the fire.. but i make time for reasoned debate over important issues in the human experience.
    ..progressive 'rebuttals'.. :roll:

    Dismissal, deflection, ad hom.. no reason, just fallacies.

    Oh yeah.. Projection. Just because you are bored, or feel hate, or are enraged, does not mean i have the same motivation.
    Truth. Justice. The American way.

    ;)

    So.. is everyone enjoying their State Mandated Religious beliefs? Do you think there might be a possibility that it is wrong? ..To lead us astray from the Truth?
     
  7. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Shut stirring and trolling is NOT "reasoned debate"
     
  8. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    If they're going to allow the 'Evolution' fantasy, which doesn't have any empirical chain of evidence that makes it 'science', then they at least should offer some of the more reasoned intelligent design theories as well.

    Better not to lie to children and quit telling them made up bullshit stories about a tiny collection of fossils and bones of small, extinct species of apes that will fit on their kitchen table means we are their descendants or something. They can put that rubbish in a philosophy class or something, and just stick to real science.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  9. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    Smears and false accusations are not 'rebuttals!'
     
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  10. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    I am still confused. While I fully agree on Truth, Justice, and The American way, I know of no State Mandated Religious beliefs, because there are no such things.
     
  11. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    State Establishment of Religion

    Constitution of United States of America 1789 (rev. 1992)
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


    In America:

    The People 'reserved' to 'themselves' the free exercise of their religion of choice, NOT the governments religion of choice, THEY did not grant by any interpretation that any legal body of the US or its states to adjudicate the religious matters of the People, much less make statutes and laws preventing people from exercising their religion(s) respectively.

    To date the government at large has extra-constitutionally [unlawfully] reneged on their part of the deal that was crucial to their creation starting with the state constitutions which by no accident ignore the peoples rights to 'exercise' their religion, and authorize only prayer. Silently of course, and not in any government setting.

    Any decision made by government that takes a position for or against someones religious position establishes a religion, either by [state recognized] affirmation or by [state recognized] prohibition, both cases establish a State Religion.

    That did not stop the government from committing massive religious violations directly against the very people that gave them permission to operate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  12. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Other than the literal mountain of empirical evidence, experimentation and observations of course. Not to mention the entire field of biology.
     
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  13. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    That is not a refutation of the OP, which posits the opposite of your unbased assertion.

    The EVIDENCE, says the opposite. There is a State Sponsored propaganda campaign that promotes a RELIGIOUS belief, and other tenets of progressive ideology, systematically and constantly in the American consciousness. Indoctrination begins from infancy, to mold the beliefs of the citizenry to homogeneity, to make them fit tools of subservience. Open inquiry, critical thinking, and alternative beliefs are not allowed, but are censored by the ideologues who control the institutions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
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  14. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    The Establishment clause prevented the Federal govt. from favoring a particular sect, but it did not restrict the individual states from doing so, and in some states a favored sect could levy taxes as well. The reason that is no longer the case was the U.S. going through radical demographic changes, and those favored sects' status were eventually voted out by later generations and new citizens. Massachusetts was the last state to do away with a state favored sect, around 1833 or so, iirc. The clause would never have been passed by a collection of states that were themselves founded by religious dissenters if the clause also applied to the individual states. So, the Federal govt. is barred by the Constitution from removing religious references from schools, courthouses and the like; that power would be left to the individual state govts.

    But, we all know the Constitution was done away with permanently by Lincoln, so it 's only trotted out when it suits some argument or other, and has no meaning any more as a real legal document. Whoever can appoint the most Federal judges determines this year's 'laws'.
     
  15. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    lol rubbish. It only exists in your imagination.
     
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  16. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    I know of no even half-way serious religious propaganda pushed by the State. In any case propaganda is not mandating. The rest of your post, while having much truth, says nothing about religion per se. Also, as a general rule, Progressiveism does not support and in fact discourages and disdains classical religion.
     
  17. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    No it exists in all the things I mentioned. The mountain of evidence, peer reviewed journals, experimentation, observations and the entire scientific field of biology.
     
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  18. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    This is demonstrably false. There are no religious beliefs promoted by the government. It's why you can't show us any.
     
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  19. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    the 14th amendment incorporated the 1st amendment to the state governments.
     
  20. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Long after the individual states had done so on their own. They never intended to ban religion in general, just specific favoring of a single sect.
     
  21. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. the 'mountain' of empirical evidence consists of a a handful few bone fragments, some millions of years apart with massive time gaps, of some extinct species of apes. There are biologists who are believers as well, and 'peer reviewed' doesn't carry much weight as a handwave any more; we also had 'scientists' promoting cigarettes in commercials at one time, too; you offer enough money then you can find all the scientists you need to say what you want. We also know some 35% of new doctoral theses use faked data, and over 50% of Ph.D.s suffer from some sort of mental illness. The so-called 'mental health professionals' are particularly anxious to pander to Political Correctness, as are the vast majority of 'academics'.

    The fact remains, there is no chain of empirical evidence that supports evolution, just conjecture, and most of that from people who have axes to grind against Christianity, and sociopaths who promote social Darwinism and other Neo-fascist and Communist 'ideals'.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
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  22. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Also, the 14th Amendment wasn't legally voted on ,since it was passed by a 'Reconstruction' Congress which lacked a majority of legally elected state govts. and Senators and Congressmen, and ruled on by the most Corrupt Supreme Court in American history the Chase Court. And, it is still being used to justify all sorts of rubbish it has nothing to do with today.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
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  23. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    :roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol:
     
  24. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    The theory of evolution isn't atheistic. Just because life evolved from a common ancestor doesn't mean a God doesn't exist. In fact, most evolutionists believe in God and believe that evolution is God's tool for creating species.

    Naturalism needs to be explained here as well. It doesn't mean there is no God or that what is beyond our current understanding isn't real. It doesn't mean that the scientific method is the only way to know things, as philosophy, logic, and math are viable in other areas. It is only a method for making discoveries about the natural world that has been shown to work in the real world. We only use explanations that have evidence and are repeatable.

    Public schools actually do allow people to mention God and students are free to talk about their religious beliefs. Courses that educate on the different religions of the world are allowed in public school as well, and its ok for courses to include the mention of religions in world history. Its fine to teach about religion in a fair manner to all religions, it is not right to teach religion like a church does. Schools are for everyone, both the religious and the non-religious, and are not churches. If you want a religious education, there are plenty of churches that you can pick from and get the exact religious doctrine you desire.

    Schools don't teach creationism but that is because 98% of scientists and experts disagree with creationism and there is a mountain of evidence for evolution. Teaching that God made the world in science class is teaching religion rather than teaching about religion.
     
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  25. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    but not a 42 year silence, as Everson was issued in 1947.
    Actually I don't know any such thing, and I'm pretty sure you don't either.
     

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