Why doesn't socialism work?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Le Chef, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    We have a representative democracy.

    We are also a federal republic.
     
  2. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    Facts and evidence mean nothing to you... I hope you never serve on a jury.
     
  3. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    So where do you stand on America committing terrorist acts against innocent civilians??
     
  4. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I taught history and economics for decades. Get a clue.

    We are a federal republic and a representative democracy.
     
  5. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a Trumper. I'm opposed.
     
  6. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    I know what you taught, and I know what you were taught.

    The purpose of founding the CFR in 1921 was to bring into the fold influential people in the fields of finance, education, media, military, judiciary, etc, for the purpose of advancing leftist ideas and goals.

    The people who were most amenable, useful, and corrupt saw their careers advance, while those that demonstrated patriotism and morals were not advanced.

    As I said, the financial motivation for crashing the stock market, while motivation enough, was just the tip of a very large iceberg.

    By 1935-37 they were able to flip the SC by having 5 anti-American, anti-Constitution, anti-liberty jurists rubber stamp their leftist agenda, undo 150 years of legal precedent, and turn the Constitution on its head.

    We went from being a republic to a democracy in the span of just a couple of years.

    In education - they did not have to change the minds of the existing body of teachers, they only needed to ensure that the teachers who taught the teachers, i.e. the Ivy League elite were onboard with their agenda.

    Over the course of decades - we ended up with teachers like you. Teaching erroneous, destructive, leftwing pap to unsuspecting "skulls of mush."
     
  7. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    You know what I taught because I more or less told you. What I was taught is another matter. My high school teachers were awful and never looked at the advantages and disadvantages of our system of government versus, say, the British parliamentary system.
    As an investor, I see no reason for them to "crash" the stock market. They make money going up and down.
    I'm sorry but this is nonsense. If SCOTUS wanted to change society, they would have reversed Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Co.
    We were always a democracy and we're still a republic
    What makes you think teachers are taught by Ivy League types?
    The arrogance of poorly-educated Trumpers is breathtaking. They listen to a------s like Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, etc. and think this substitutes for an education.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/
     
  8. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for agreeing that I presented articles which you refuse to read.
    You cannot make such a claim, as you refuse to read them.
    ?? You asked me to support the facts I identified, which were facts. The links were to articles that support those facts.
    ?? Where do you incorrectly imagine this discussion is taking place? Are you under an erroneous impression that I can hand you a paper publication??
    It is your burden to read material that you demanded I provide for you.

    Clear?
    You asked for support, not proof. Proof is for mathematics.
    I posted the facts and supported them.
    <yawn> Thanks for proving you have to commit the Original Sin of intellectual dishonesty -- refusal to know facts -- in order to preserve your false and evil beliefs.
     
  9. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    I know you don't see... your thinking on these subjects is very limited and sophmoric.

    As was said in some of those quotes I provided you, "... to think the crash was an accident or the result of stupidity defies all logic".

    Yet, that is what you believe.

    Crashing the market is perfectly logical - if you understand the game. You obviously don't understand the game.


    1886 vs 1937??

    Dude, I've explained to you that they needed the crash, a much more compromised electorate, and a puppet president to get their attacks on our Constitution thru the process.

    In 1886 they didn't even have the central bank in place yet, and the industrial revolution had not yet brought the Robber Barons together in a unified vision of ruling the country.

    Go back and read text books from the first 140 years of our republic. Even dictionary definitions were changed at about that time.

    The U.S. Army used to hand out a small guide book to soldiers, it was called The Soldiers Guide. In 1915 it stated clearly the the Unites States was a republic, and it gave the proper definition of democracy.

    By 1937, it had removed any reference of republic, and falsely stated the US was a democracy.

    So the question begs, what changed between 1915 and 1937??

    Everything comes from the top. The teachers who teach the teachers, write the textbooks, influence their respective fields, etc, etc...

    Throw in the money and work filtered thru the foundation system, i.e. the Ford Foundation, Rockefeller Foundation, Carnegie Foundation, etc.

    The easily had the money and influence to completely rewrite American history, and transform our society.

    You are a product of that transformation. You believe everything they tell you, and relentlessly fight for the agenda of the wealthy ruling class. Saddest part, is you have no idea that's what you're doing.

    You really should read Quigley's book. I disagree with his conclusions and agenda, but at least he tells the truth.
     
  10. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    http://www.foundingfatherquotes.com/articles/22

    Alexander Hamilton
    asserted that "We are now forming a Republican form of government. Real liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. If we incline too much to democracy we shall soon shoot into a monarchy, or some other form of a dictatorship."4 Hamilton, in the last letter he ever wrote, warned that "our real disease…is DEMOCRACY."


    Thomas Jefferson declared: "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."


    Benjamin Franklin had similar concerns of a democracy when he warned that “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!” After the Constitutional Convention was concluded, in 1787, a bystander inquired of Franklin: "Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?" Franklin replied, "A Republic, if you can keep it."


    John Adams, our second president, wrote: “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself.”


    James Madison, the father of the Constitution wrote in Federalist Paper No. 10 that pure democracies “have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.”


    The Constitution itself, in Article IV, Section 4, declares: "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  11. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    http://www.foundingfatherquotes.com/articles/22

    It appears that incremental progressives have effectively manipulated the conversation by controlling the words used to convey political concepts. Over time, foundational words that explained our heritage were altered as a necessary first step towards fundamentally transforming the republic.
     
  12. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Uh huh. I'm just a [shuffle, shuffle] successful investor... :rolleyes:
    I don't live in your binary world. The market crash was a product of Fed policies.

    https://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/speeches/2004/200403022/default.htm
    As I said, really rich folks make money no matter which direction the market is moving.
    Why do they need a "compromised electorate" and why are they attacking the Constitution?
    What is the "unified vision" they were promoting?
    Who cares what was in a "small guide book to soldiers?" We are a republic and have been all along. We also have a representative democratic form of government.
    No, everything doesn't come from the top. Teachers increasingly ignore state textbooks, especially in social studies and history.
    You guys are amazing. We're all stupid. Egads.
     
  13. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    I don't think you're stupid, on the contrary, I know you are a highly intelligent man.

    That said, intelligence does not inoculate people from indoctrination and social/cultural blindness.

    How many millions of otherwise intelligent people have followed pied pipers straight into ruin?? History books full, no??

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Which brings me back to a couple of subjects I brought up a few pages back - Operation Gladio and the assassination of Daphne Caruana Galizia.

    I bring these up because they are prime examples of the United States and Britain killing innocent people to protect ongoing illegal activities by both governments.

    I bring these up because American citizens, you included I'm sure, are completely unaware of any of this because the media is so strictly controlled here in the U.S.

    In Operation Gladio the CIA/MI6 were responsible for dozens of terrorist attacks that killed at least hundreds of innocent civilians and wounded thousands more in Germany, Italy, Belgium, France, and Spain.

    Yet, Americans are completely ignorant of these facts. The BBC, and some independent journalists, did some documentaries in the 1990's, but there has been a complete blackout in the U.S.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    The assassination of Daphne Caruana Galizia happened in 2017. Her crime was that she was writing stories and investigating the laundering of drug money by the CIA thru Malta banks from their profits of heroin from Afghanistan.

    The CIA had for decades been funding a lot of their off the books activities, including Gladio, with profits from heroin and cocaine out of Afghanistan.

    When the Taliban took control of the country in '01 they killed the opium trade.

    The U.S. needed to invade to get the lucrative drug trade back up and running.

    That was what Daphne Caruana Galizia was investigating and reporting on when she was killed.

    ---------------------------------------

    The point of raising these issues is to demonstrate that you are not receiving accurate information from the media or your government.

    Just as you've been misinformed about the other topics we've been discussing.

    I'm sure you're a savvy investor. I own my own company, am fairly well off, and have a diversified portfolio myself.

    How well the stock market is going, or our success in it, is not the issue.
     
  14. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Socialism does not work efficiently because it is contrary to human nature.
    It does not work because it removes the incentive to excel. Humans are not much different than other animals, they will only do something if they are rewarded. In addition, they are jealous. So if a worker in a socialist business is a slacker and does less than their share of work, and cannot be fired because they are "entitled" to a job, it soon infects the rest of the workers who resent having to work hard while someone else slacks off. Soon no one is being productive and the system collapses, just as the Soviets, and every other socialist system did.
    Socialism is the worlds oldest form of society, it is basically tribalism. As man evolved and became more intelligent, he began to understand the shortfalls of socialism, and became more capitalist. Capitalism made it possible for a person to prosper if they were willing to work hard. As capitalism spread so did civilization and prosperity. You will look long and hard before you ever find a prosperous "tribe".
    Alas though, we still have lazy people who do not want to take responsibility for their own lives, and want society to take care of them. Those people will continue to advocate for socialism hoping one day they will not have to be responsible for their own survival....
     
  15. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The reason socialism doesnt work is greed of the leaders, and some people wont work.
     
  16. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much what I said though I didn't go into nearly as much detail.
     
  17. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    What on earth are you talking about?
     
  18. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Yes, I was agreeing with you.
     
  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    You think a massive wealth gap and rampant homelessness is sophistication? Seriously?
     
  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    That's the primary reason (my bold). Always.

    It only works, when everyone works.
     
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    And everyone works only if everyone one is either a slave or an overseer
     
  22. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I'm only addressing voluntary socialism ... the kind that exists in a democracy, and amongst those who have a social relationship/connection and are therefore motivated to work for the benefit of the group.

    State socialism can never work, because you can never make people sacrifice for strangers - especially when those strangers were simply too lazy or self-indulgent to take care of their finances.
     
  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    That would be like the shakers and other small groups of like minded individuals. And please that isn't socialism. That is in fact a variety of incorporation. Such thing have bee around at least since the great age of sail. Privateers used such means of incorporation.
     
  24. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Yes I see your point, it would be much better if we were all poor and homeless, instead of the bums who will not help themselves.
     
  25. hellofromwarsaw

    hellofromwarsaw Well-Known Member

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    Socialism as known everywhere but the English-speaking world.
     

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