Stay at home orders are a joke, here's why

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by Balto, Mar 26, 2020.

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  1. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Just because you are social distancing does not mean you should be bogarting that doobie.
     
  2. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    I'm quite aware of who has been killed off by the virus. I'm also aware of the risk I sign up for when I leave my front door. I'm not delirious or a idiot here, I get how contagious this virus is. It's the reason why I hold the belief the people who should be wearing masks are the immune compromised and the elderly. There's no reason for any other demographic to wear masks unless they've tested positive. Healthcare professionals need those masks, people who are perfectly healthy don't. That goes for any essential worker at this moment in time.
     
  3. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    It's quite clear to me that I have struck a nerve here. Let me be clear. It is not up to the government to protect your health, it is up to you and only you. Not the CDC, not the WHO, not Dr. Fauci, not Trump. Our government can tell us to wear masks, but we have no obligation to fulfill that request. Our government can tell us to stay inside, and not go anywhere unless absolutely necessary. But we have no obligation to fulfill that request either. It's a no-brainer that you take the risk that you might get COVID, no matter who you are, if you leave the safety of your home. But we are adults here. I'm simply telling people that life can still be lived even during a pandemic. That truth is hard to chew on. It's only when we end up giving ourselves paralysis from fear that we become paranoid about the surroundings around us. And of course, you're going to give yourself fear paralysis if you sit around and watch press briefings from the White House or governors all day. Listen to talk radio or media pundits all day about the outbreak.

    It's the reason I don't have such paralysis. It's that paralysis that causes people to lash out at Asian-Americans, or never leave their homes. Such paralysis is equally as unhealthy as the virus that threatens our lifestyles at this very moment. I simply want people to wake up, and think for themselves. Not allow their governors to do the thinking for them.
     
  4. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    Mardi Gras didn't need to be cancelled, nor does mass especially as we approach Easter and the end of Lent. We simply need to know how to protect ourselves in large gatherings. If one has a cough, they take cough suppressants. And cough--or sneeze for that matter, into their arm. That's how you keep droplets from spreading. Under normal circumstances, I would believe the government knows what's best for us. But this is not one of those times.

    Besides, if you're an introvert, you prefer solitude anyway. And I have a regular IQ, thank you.
     
  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You're still flat out claiming to be smarter than medical science.

    And, it is true that COVID isn't a death sentence, but some percent of those who YOU infect will require hospitalization - where people are risking their lives to solve that problem to which you contributed. And, some percentage of those you infect will die.
     
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Every one of us is a troop in the war on COVID. It is our actions that determine the outcome. We get to decide how many of our healthcare workers get sick, how many doctors who are coming out of retirement die, etc.

    And, you ARE free to switch sides.

    But, do not expect anyone to respect that decision.
     
    crank likes this.
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    All large cities have the same problems, including Tokyo. But none are anywhere near as bad as NY when it comes to this disease. What gives?
     
  8. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Why?
     
  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    :steamed:
     
  10. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Life IS being lived. We're working and studying from home, and living life in exactly the same way we always did (at least we are at my house). We're talking to friends and family more than usual, since we're all checking in on each other every day. Life is actually pretty good.

    Hate to break it to you, but it's actually you who is driven by fear. Fear is the number one fuel for denial, and your behaviour reeks of denial. We who are abiding by the lockdown are far more pragmatic about it, because we want it over as quickly as possible. We're driven by common sense, not fear. This is a proactive action, not a reactive response.
     
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  11. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    You really should readmore. See what I did? Several doctors have had success prescribing chloroquine as a medication to treat the virus. Why are democrats and the media so rabidly persistent to deny a possible aid in curing the virus? Is it a "Trump said it so we have to bash it" kind of thing? Seems like it.

    Connecticut dad says chloroquine helped him recover from coronavirus
    Chris Tillett, 45, the first confirmed COVID-19 patient in the state, was in a medically induced coma for 10 days at Danbury Hospital after the illness ravaged his body, leaving him with bilateral pneumonia, the Connecticut Post reported.

    Doctors used several different drug protocols to treat Tillett — who has twin infant sons — but he said a combination of chloroquine with the HIV anti-viral drug Kaletra worked best.
    https://nypost.com/2020/04/03/connecticut-dad-credits-chloroquine-for-coronavirus-recovery/


    FDA Approves Anti-Malarial Drugs Chloroquine And Hydroxychloroquine For Emergency Coronavirus Treatment
    The Department of Health and Human Services said Sunday hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine products can be distributed and prescribed by doctors through the Strategic National Stockpile “to hospitalized teen and adult patients with COVID-19, as appropriate, when a clinical trial is not available or feasible.”
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachel...emergency-coronavirus-treatment/#7d3fd4c55e5d


    Biloxi firefighter among the first at Memorial Hospital to be treated with chloroquine

    “I think it helped a lot. Friday night to Saturday morning when I first started on it, I was doing really bad,” said Conine. "The pneumonia had gotten bad and I was really worried I was going to end up in the hospital but when that medicine kicked in, it has helped greatly. I’m almost breathing normally now.”
    Along with chloroquine, he was also prescribed a Z-pack to fight the pneumonia.
    https://www.wlox.com/2020/04/02/bil...emorial-hospital-be-treated-with-chloroquine/

    Coronavirus Treatment: France Officially Sanctions Drug After 97.5% Patients Recovered From COVID-19 Within 5 Days
    Doctors in France will now be able to treat COVID-19 patients after Didier Raoult, a renowned physician who specializes in infectious diseases, announced a new clinical trial’s results. According to that, 78 out of 80 coronavirus patients recovered within 5 days after being treated with chloroquine- which is considerably quicker than the usual 14 days. For some COVID-19 patients, it can take up to 28 days to recover, if at all they did.

    “Hydroxychloroquine and the combination of lopinavir/ritonavir may be prescribed, dispensed and administered under the responsibility of a doctor to patients affected by COVID-19, in the healthcare establishments which take charge of them, as well as for the continuation of their treatment if their condition allows it and with the authorization of the initial prescriber, at home,” Trustnodes quoted Oliver Veral, the Minister of Health.
    https://www.ibtimes.com/coronavirus...ons-drug-after-975-patients-recovered-2949364
     
  12. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    There is no fear here, let alone denial. If I was fearful of the outside, of the unknown, I wouldn’t be as animate about to idiocy of social distancing. When I say life being lived, I’m saying going out and living life. Not on the internet.

    These governors could stop being pathetic and end the lockdown on their own terms. So, it’s not us that either speed up or slow down the lockdown process. Such poor decision making by these governors do not deserve the gift of conformity. They’re the ones killing the economy.
     
  13. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    Good question. I simply don’t have the answer for those who can practice something so simple.
     
  14. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    Where did I claim I’m smarter than medical science?
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I listen to the CDC on issues such as this.

    They have been ready to test the use of this drug. But, the drug does have significant side affects and has not been show to be effective by scientific studies.

    For example, the drug is known to cause heart fibrillation - the reason the "fish tank" guy died. Even if it were to be found effective, there would be issues concerning what patients should be prescribed this drug.

    There are 5 or 6 drugs including chloroquine compounds that are in testing at present.

    The problem with Trump is that he irresponsibly projected this drug as successful before there was any study. And, the result is that people who actually need this drug are now finding it hard to get itt.

    The cases you pose are correlations - people got this drug and subsequently recovered. Correlatios form a justification for studying the drug. But, they do not prove causation - whether the drug was the reason. And, correlations don't show effective dose, which patients should avoid it, how to use our short supply most effectively, etc., etc.
     
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  16. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Just to add: Currently the known death rate from Corona in the US is 2.7%. That means that 97.3% of all patients will recover.

    So how can we know if someone would have been one of the 2.7 per 100 people who would have died? The chances are very high that any given patient WILL recover with or without any alleged cure.

    The real objections are rooted in the idea that shooting from the hip with Dr Oz is a better system than medical science and the CDC. This is about the rise of the Holiday Inn Experts who think a few hours on the internet is as good as a college degree; and even as good or better than advanced degrees that take more than a decade to complete.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
    Curious Always likes this.
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! Thanks.
     
  18. IranianStudent1

    IranianStudent1 Member

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    How are you sure you are healthy?
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    So, you're smarter than medical science!

    You've decided medical science is wrong about how the virus is spread in a crowded environment!!

    And, you're smarter than political leaders who actually listent to the CDC, Dr. Fauci, and other experts in contagious disease!!
     
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  20. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    Trump discussed the drug and said that there were positive results using it. He never recommended that anyone take the drug on their own. It wasn't irresponsible. They took fish tank cleaner that wasn't even in pharmaceutical form. You are just stuck on blaming Trump for the actions of two stupid democrats.
     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Trump's briefing caused action by the public that was NOT consistent with medical advice.

    You can suggest that he had no idea that could happen, but such an argument would be absurd.

    In no way have I EVER suggested the fish tank guy was representative of that. Those folks were indeed stupid.

    Trump's statements DID cause a run on compounds that were needed by those who have other diseases, making it hard for them to find needed, prescrived medication.

    And, that WAS absolutely irresponsible.
     
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  22. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    His statement was a statement of fact. How do you think people get this prescription drug, on Amazon? If they have a need for it their doctor prescribes it. That isn't Trump's fault. That is like saying that Trump caused a shortage of ventilators because he said they are useful. Was Trump bound to keep this a secret and let people that need it just die because people would actually use it?
     
  23. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I read your post twice, and I'm still not completely sure what you are advocating.

    While so many government AND medical "experts" stumble around in the dark, telling us to do one thing one day -- and then contradicting themselves the next day -- I'm trying to keep it simple! I began stockpiling enough of what we need a couple of months ago when the danger really presented itself for those with the perceptive ability to grasp it. Now, I lock my doors, load my guns, and mind my own damned business....

    If somebody else wants to "make a statement" by running around in public with no mask, no gloves, nothing to cover the eyes, etc., etc., that's fine with me. I don't try to tell people what they must and must not do. My 'border line' is my property line -- I rule everything within it, while obeying the 'law of the land', but I assume neither control over, nor responsibility for anything outside my property line.

    "I don't bother you, and you don't bother me." And, at some point, things will either get much better, or much worse. We should all be as ready as possible for either possibility, or, just go running willy-nilly on down the road, accepting whatever happens to us....
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  24. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t felt anything and I’ve been out and about for the past month. I figure my immune system is working pretty well.
     
  25. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    The CDC was late in declaring COVID a pandemic. So was the WHO. Can they really be trusted? That’s the takeaway from such late decision making.

    While I never took a word out of Trumps mouth for face value going back to January, I listened to Dr. Fauci up until his statements began seeming more and more exaggerated each day. The “200,000 Americans will die” estimate is where I had to draw the line. This “end of the world” talk does nothing constructive, only creates more panic. Maybe the doctor can earn my trust back if he stops exaggerating about the virus or what it will or will not do.

    Now the Surgeon General is saying in the next week, it will be our “Pearl Harbor moment.” Again, that’s more “end of the world” talk. Maybe for ratings, maybe as click bait, but it’s certainly exaggerated. Such skepticism is warranted when the statements become more surreal.
     

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