Oxford study: millions may have already built up coronavirus immunity

You're forgetting that we watched China, Iran, Spain, and Italy go through some pretty terrible times. Iran, Spain and Italy still are, and for all we know, so is China.

What is going on in major cities in the U.S. and across the world right now would be so much worse if no precautions had been instituted.

Everywhere that there has been a leveling off of new cases of the virus, anywhere in the entire world, it is because social distancing and isolation made it happen.

You're just applying the same lens that you apply to everything on here. Government is bad government is bad government is bad. We get it. Don't become so rabid that you lose the ability to be objective.

 

I know.

 

Their mortality is near 20% every year.
They are on their home stretch, waiting for the celestial discharge.
That's just reality

 

This is just speculation.

The restrictions being placed on society around the world are totalitarian and draconian. Describing them as such is not intended to "flame" you or "have a go" at you. They are intended to paint an accurate picture of what's happening across multiple societies.

The US government just spent $2 trillion dollars on a reponse.

Instead, they could have spent $500 billion on expanding hospital infrastructure.

It would have saved us $1.5 trillion while solving the logistical problem that is being used as the excuse to shut down civilization.

According to the numbers you provided, about 0.0037% of Sweden's population has died from COVID.

Each death is tragic and regrettable, but they are not nearly so tragic as to justify draconian restrictions on essential freedoms.

 

I watched my grandmother lie in bed for over a year before she died. She was miserable, confused, and soiling herself on a daily basis. On multiple occasions, she expressed a desire to die. These are usually the sort of people we're supposed to be "protecting" from COVID. Because it would be a such tragedy if they were robbed of the opportunity to defecate on themselves for a few more weeks or months while their brains turned into apple sauce.

 

Usually I’d agree but if planning for the worst is going to create another worst case scenario such as the next depression I’d have second thoughts.

 

You really think it has to be one of those two options?
I’d pick option number three. Don’t over or under react but instead act in a reasonable fashion that protects heath and the economy.

 

Okay, so Sweden probably has more unconfirmed cases of COVID, which would explain why their death rate is higher than in Norway.

Still, we're talking about approximately 0.0037% of the Swedish population dying from COVID. That is so far below the mortality rate that was originally estimated.

 

Government has caused more death and misery than any other institution in history. By far. It is only reasonable to view government power with extreme skepticism.

 

Thanks for starting this thread. I am anxious to get factual updates as to information regarding this. i don't believe the "downers" (left wing) will be interested in this development.

 

After we deal with the problem at hand I guarantee you it will be less of a problem. America is not going to be so dependent on it's enemies and unreliable allies.

 

~ Let us hope that you are correct ...!
Meanwhile I believe the USA has done a good job so far and needs to reopen for business ASAP . I hopefully project by the end of April we should be in much better shape .

 

Its better that we kill the livelihood of millions and turn the country into a mass surveillance, police state

 

Either you have freedom or you have nothing.
People would rather live in cages and be told what to do that face uncertainty. . A little bit of fear and they put their chains on like good little sheople.
The freedoms mankind fought for for thousands of years, they will give up in a blink.

 

Government is also what has allowed the human race to lift itself above being thin bands of nomadic wanderers, since the need for centralized government would have arisen, and likely already had, once people started settling down in towns and then cities, states, and nations.

Government happens with or without formalized structured governments at the local, state, and federal level. Government is people and people have structure. They need it.

 

~ This is true. Similar we need laws in order to live together in peace. However many fear that some government ( U.S. in particular ) has become too big, powerful, unethical and no longer represents the people. It is all about balance.

 

That depression is coming whether we socially isolate or not. What we have to do is instead of sitting on our collective arses and grizzlies start working out ways to keep the economy ticking

 

Do you want fresh vegetables in the middle of winter?

 

I posted about the 1st month of this in America as that is a good reference point to where we are.

Tracking it by day using a average death rate is pointless right now IMO with the fluctuation in deaths.

 

All kinds of factors at work I would guess. I would bet the number of automobile and work place deaths are much lower now for clear reasons. Hell with the bars closed the drunk driving deaths will decrease. But then I think domestic violence deaths go up as money issues cause family stress and just being cooped up will drive more domestic violence. I would imagine suicide will also go up for many of the same reasons.

 

the corps will decide for us, and they will always decide on cheap labor

 

The statistics you should focus on, comparing Sweden with Norway, would be the trend in daily new deaths. With twice Norway's population, Sweden has been recently reporting 10 times the number of daily new deaths.

Unless Sweden changes course, they will be the next UK -- a place which reported more new deaths than Italy yesterday. A place which started relying only on "herd immunity" and ends up with more new deaths than some of the countries previously regarded as the worst hot spots. By the time they change course, they will have to deal with a much worse problem than if they had started earlier.

In the meantime, recall that there is a round a 3 week lag time generally between being infected and dying from the virus. And a lag time of varying degrees between getting infected and falling seriously ill. What Sweden is dealing with right now is like the tip of the ice burg.

I don't want anyone to misunderstand my position: I actually believe 'herd immunity' is ultimately the real reason (absent a cure or vaccine) the spread of the virus will slow and stop. But no society can afford a lot of sick and dead people in a very short period of time. The time frame for people falling ill and dying will need to be stretched, even if the ultimate numbers in aggregate when all is said and done won't be all that different. If not, the toll of the virus economically, in deaths, and in everything else, will be much worse. You aren't going to have a free, civilized, functioning, healthy, society if you find hundreds of thousands of people rushing to the hospitals for treatment when there aren't enough doctors, nurses, hospital beds, equipment or anything else to handle those numbers all at once. You aren't going to stop the panic that will afflict everyone when you have such a sudden surge, causing all sorts of undesirable behaviors, by simply playing games with statistics.

The right answers on how to deal with this virus are similar everywhere. You need good social distancing measures to stem the worst kind of sudden surge in numbers of people afflicted. And, thereafter, unless a cure or vaccine is developed, you need to slowly manage the almost inevitable fact that a lot of people will die from the virus sooner or later. Those people won't be mere statistics to their families, but if their deaths and illnesses are spread across a longer period of time, their loss might not cause the same degree of problems as it would otherwise.

 

They'll be less dead?

 

They won't be less dead, but besides the many others (including people with other illnesses) who will not suffer from the same agony once they find their entire health care and economic system turned upside down by any sudden and uncontrolled surge in numbers that will inevitably cause all sorts of problems (including economic ones far worse than what you find from the social distancing measures in place), civil society as a whole will have a chance to come out of this alive.

 

It's pointless to use any starting point given that the disease is no where near the end. You might as well use a 60 day rolling period in order to get an even lower "more dead than normal" figure