God vs Science: Who Wins?

And he had it coming.....so it is with the tyrannical godless. Jefferson had the wisdom to get out of there. He acknowledged wisdom greater than himself.

So you imply that those that led the French Revolution were not enightened?? They would differ with you. It WAS godless to your liking.

 

So you imply Adolf Hitler (just one example) did not think? I see a great deal of thought in his works. Morality aside.....he was a genius!

 

If you understood human nature you would understand Ayn Rand and her failings. Some ideas are attractive as it is with Karl Marx. We could do an entire thread about her but it's nothing to aspire to. Many" thinkers" oppose her.

 

You forget to read the DoI?

 

Paine’s Common sense was an enormous influence on thinking that influenced support for a declaring independence from Britain, and on what form of Government should be established, including supporting the ideas of a government formed by representatives of ‘the People’, suggesting a government defined by a Constitution, and the it should be a Republic. Jefferson, submitted many of his thoughts writing from Paris to Madison. But, one of the most influential people on our form of Government, including its three branches and a system of checks and balances also was not in attendance, a name I suspect you have never heard, nor read, though his thinking was one of the largest influences on the founder’s thinking on those drafting the Constitution, a Frenchman named, Charles-Louis de Secondat, Baron de La Brède et de Montesquieu with his work, the Spirit of Law, published in 1748. If you read that publication, you will see in it, the framework for the Constitution.
Returning to the idea of the Typical American, how many did you think know of the influences on the founder’s thinking? Where do you suppose the opening lines of the Declaration of Independence were almost entirely plagiarized from? How many Americans are well informed on the Constitution and their rights as opposed to getting their opinions from others in an almost myth scripture form similar to those that believe in the Bible who derive their knowledge from clergy interpretors... how many have actually read the Bible cover to cover? Though, raised a Catholic, I am not a believing Christian, yet I have read the Bible in it’s entirety (have you?), as well as the Koran and more than one of the ‘pagan’ works as you frame it.
BTW, Americans are not compelled to give oaths by swearing on the Bible, and haven’t been for a long time. I have twice been given the formal oath to support and defend the Constitution, neither time was a Bible used.

 

Learn a bit about history. France’s revolution movement was encouraged by the successful revolt of the colonies, but the seeds were sown and in progress before the American Revolution. It was part of a movement and changing of thinking about monarchy forms of government that began in the renaissance and was being discussed by several political philosophers emerging in what has often been called the Age of Enlightenment, highly influential was the works of Montesquieu, the same writer the had a major influence on our Founding Fathers.
BTW, Jefferson was in Paris during their revolution and many of his firsthand accounts were recorded. Some of his observations are shared in an book called, Thomas Jefferson’s Crem Brûlée: How a Founding Fathers and his Slave James Hemming Introduced French Cuisine to America, an interesting book on Jefferson and aspects of his thinking.

 

Jefferson was in Paris during the revolution there.
As for the statement “And he had it coming.....so it is with the tyrannical godless“, who is that referencing? Paine? If so, he was neither tyrannical nor would have considered himself Godless. As suggested earlier, you should read his Age of Reason, along with his subsequent writings responding to criticism of the Age of Reason before making ill informed statements.
The statement “He acknowledged wisdom greater than himself.” in what context? His reasoning for returning to the US? Where is that reference? Or are you making assumptions?

 

Why would one derive knowledge from clergy interpretors? Believers gave their lives by the thousands so that one had the right to interpret for themselves. Try it.

 

Perhaps you should read "George Washington's Sacred Fire", before making ill informed statements about America's founding and their reliance on Divine Providence.

 

The fact that he's referencing primary sources while you are trying to distract with secondary sources should tell you something, if you are being honest. Also, it isn't like those who were appealing to "Divine Providence" were doing so in a mostly traditional Christian format. You don't need to be a fundamentalist Christian to acknowledge a wisdom greater than yourself. In fact, Pain, who absolutely hated your scriptures, certainly acknowledged a wisdom greater than himself . . . it is just that he thought that wisdom was greater than Christian dogma too.

 

Lines that could only have been spoken by someone not even vaguely familiar with Paine's philosophy. Sounds exactly like him. Try reading him some time.

 

I know something of Jefferson. I also know something of John Adams. The two died on the same day....the 4th of July. They had come to similar conclusions about life in their last days though Jefferson had leaned toward being a Deist earlier. Adams was a devout Chrisitan. Washington, a devout Christian , had a little mistrust of Jefferson due to his Deist leanings. Most all the Founders had Christian Beliefs though different denominations....but somehow, they managed to setthose smaller difference aside and pray for the greater belief that "there is a God in Heaven that takes an interest in the affairs of men".

 

I have. I like a lot of the thoughts derived from earlier philosophers.

I don't myself equate with the term "fundamentalist" though many or most of the Founders did. Some were even Bible Scholars. I tend to be of the school that acknowledges the sacred mission of Christ, the wisdom in His words, and the certainty of that He is WHo He said He is. The majority of those who founded this Nation did also. To try and overlook those men their beliefs and accomplishment in favor of a Progressive Statist view of our Nation is "Revisionist" at best.

 

money is just an IOU by the government an there is nothing wrong with increasing the IOUs with a printing press or the banking system as needed an call for.

Now we are off the gold standards an our money is worth just as must as we all agree it is worth no more and no less.

Bitcoin is back by nothing at all just like the dollar an yet you can trade it for thousands of dollars worldwide due to people opinions of what it happen to be worth.

 

I think you're discounting the degree to which the US dollar is backed by America's government.

 

Ah, the lies we tell ourselves to keep the fraud alive. You are about to find out why it’s economically impossible to print your way out of an economic collapse. Just as can’t pay your mortgage with a check after you empty your bank account by spending your earnings on whores, drugs, and gambling, or donating it to the Little Sisters of the Poor.


Ayn Rand: “Money is a tool of exchange; it represents wealth only so long as it can be traded for material goods and services. Wealth does not grow in nature; it has to be produced by men. Nature gives us only the raw materials, but it is man’s mind that has to discover the knowledge of how to use them. It is man’s thinking and labor that transform the materials into food, clothing, shelter or television sets—into all the goods that men require for their survival, comfort and pleasure.”

 

You have not read Paine as he did indeed and rightfully mock the Christian bible in details and did mock therefore the Christian god.

 

God doesn’t want Man to be great; remember, He’s a jealous God. God wants Man to obey and serve—and the masses are very obedient...but the independent mind? He creates anesthesia, airplanes, nuclear spaceships, and Heaven on Earth.

 

We’re the French enlightened? No they weren’t, just a bunch a psychotic sycophants paying lip service to Liberty while grabbing power in the name of the Brotherhood of Men. They substituted one collectivist tyranny, the Monarchy, for another collectivist tyranny, Democracy.

 

I will wager few devotees have read the Bible. The words they hear are generally those they hear from clergy in church. You know, that place many go on Sunday the hour or so they demonstrate to others ‘they believe’ and figure their God will count their attendance toward their score to prevent being sent to the ‘Bad’ place, then they can be free to behave as they wish the rest of the week.
Sure believers gave their lives, while taking the lives of those believing in a a different God or different way to observe the same God, considering those believing in one God were by definition praying to the same God.

Your statements are frequently devoid logic and without support. You are just tossing out statements that you think sound good. Whether one believes in God, doesn’t believe in God or doesn’t ascribe to ether absolute has nothing to do does not mean they are “favor of a Progressive Statist view” or “of our Nation is "Revisionist"”. The only logic in that is in your head. The Founding Fathers might have followed their version of Christianity, but the provided for people to have the right to their individual beliefs, and further, demonstrated that in the body of the Constitution, apart from the 1A, as well.
To suggest the French revolutionaries were Godless, is completely baseless, and again, devoid of the understanding of the history. Again, just, blowing smoke as fact.

 

The truth or falsehood of an idea is not dependent upon majority opinion. It’s truth or falsehood is determined by one principle, Reality,

 

You are spot on. It’s all there for those who seek truth from reality instead revelation from Divinity. All one need do is read The Age of Reason.

 

LOl an if the bank grant you credit backing your checking account then you could indeed pay your rent from a zero balance checking account.

Money both cash and credit is just book keeping tokens an by themselves have no magical property.

The feds and banks are increasing or decreasing the money supply all the damn time without a printing press using such means as changes in bank reserve requirements.

Funds now go into and out of my accounts by way of commands from my home computers an are just bits of digits information.

 

and venereal disease, war, divorce, pedophelia, rape, incest, lying, cheating all things created by a mind independent from God.

 

The "brotherhood of man" is what you get when God is substituted for the wisdom of man.