Churches that refuse to stop services

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by HereWeGoAgain, Apr 5, 2020.

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  1. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Life Tabernacle Church in Louisiana, will be holding services today in spite of warnings even from the police department. And they are not alone. While most churches do appear to be conforming, in highly infected regions all over the country there are pastors refusing to stop holding services. I saw one woman interviewed as she entered their church property who proclaimed that she is protected by the blood of Christ. :rolleyes:

    So much of this has been coming for a long time. Fox News, Rush and the other RW media and their perpetual crackpot conspiracy nonsense, people turning away from science for conspiracy theories, religion vs science, faith vs logic, faith in trump... it all seems to be coming to a head with his crisis.

    When this is over there will be a lot of dead bodies and a lot of liability. Just wait until a few of those church members get sick and die and their families contact their lawyers. They will suddenly discover a new kind of faith. For perspective, early in March a church choir in Washington met and one member was unknowingly infected. At the time of the last report I saw, of the 60 members, 45 were ill and two were already dead. So the ramifications for ignoring warnings can be severe. What will happen when a super church with 1800 members or more meets in one of the most infected areas of the country?

    Fox is going down. Rush is going down. Many of these pastors will be sued or possibly put up on criminal charges. Denial of science can now kill you. Conspiracy theories can now kill you. Listening to trump can kill you. Even fundamentalist religious beliefs can kill you. So much coming to a head all at once.

    It reminds me of the old Chinese curse: May you live in interesting times.

    It also reminds me of a story from the Bible
    Matthew 12:11
    Jesus Heals on the Sabbath
    10 and a man with a withered hand was there. In order to accuse Jesus, they asked Him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?” 11 He replied, “If one of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”…

    Translation: Stay home! Jesus said so!!! Life is more important than technicalities... even the life of a sheep.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
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  2. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I am very skeptical about all these lawsuits succeeding. You are going to have to prove the exact exposure that got you or your loved one sick. The who, when and where that lead to your fever / demise to the exclusion of other whos whens and wheres that may also have gotten you sick like a grocery store, or a stranger you walked too close to, or your own kid. Then you have to convince a court not to hold you personally responsible for your adult reckless decision to ignore the stay at home order, and go to that church, and instead hold some third party ( Fox news, Sean Hannity, your pastor accountable because they publicly disagreed with the recommendations of the CDC.

    This isn't like HIV where all you need to do is find and exclude a few other sex partners, and show that your remaining sexual encounter knew he was sick and lied to your face about it.
     
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  3. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    If you are vulnerable to this disease, its stupid to go to church, but the right to worship is in the Constitution. It's not like the disease is being kept secret from the congregation. Some people value this life much less than the next. Eventually, we will have to get back to normal.
     
  4. Louisiana75

    Louisiana75 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Personally I think it's stupid and it's crazy to think that god will save or protect them. If that's the case, why hasn't god saved or protected everyone else? Why did god allow such a virus to begin with. However, the people who are still attending this service are doing so at their own free will and will get what's coming to them. They should know better and if they don't, the virus will weed out the stupid people apparently. New Orleans is in bad shape right now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  5. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    While I take your point let us take the case of Liberty "university" deciding to open and then the kids got sick. Falwell KNEW beforehand that bringing kids together would result in the virus spreading and he chose to IGNORE the risk. His liability is a slamdunk.

    Once that case is decided you know have a precedent for a religious leader KNOWINGLY placing his members at risk. A class action suit only has to produce a single individual who stayed at home and ONLY went to that church and subsequently became sick and the case is made for everyone else.

    The ONLY defense that might work is to establish that the members KNOWINGLY took the risk UPON THEMSELVES. However that is a heavy lift because it means proving it for every member who became sick and if any have subsequently died there is nothing to show that that they were aware of the risk.

    Yes, the current extremist malformation of the Supreme Court would probably overturn these lawsuits in spite of the prior landmark 1905 Ruling.
     
  6. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting to see how quickly civil rights go right out the damn window at the first sign of sniffles. I honestly don't see what precedent in law gives state and local governments the legal right to close religious gatherings. Man, people have lost their damn minds and the thin veneer of custom and law that's protected civil liberties has shredded.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  7. Louisiana75

    Louisiana75 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agree, I think it's a stupid decision on their part to continue to congregate but it's their own choice to do so.
     
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  8. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    It might be a stretch but I'm sure a plaintiff attorney will try and use the 'Attractive Nuisance' doctrine. An example would be a child trespassing on your property to use your pool and in doing so drowns. You would be found liable. I wonder if 'god wants you to come to his house and pray' could be looked at the same way?? Fr sure it will be tested.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractive_nuisance_doctrine
     
  9. david gullikson

    david gullikson Banned

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    Those freaks, when interviewed, said, Jesus will not allow any harm to me. When asked if they may infect others, they admitted they might, but then turned around and said, it could go the other way, in Walmart, they might be infected, ALLS FAIR, they said. NO RESPECT for their communities. In fairer times, they would be installed in public stocks. Then at least they would be helping the stock market.
    https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/51/3d/4e/medieval-crime-museum.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
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  10. david gullikson

    david gullikson Banned

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    This is a CLASSIC example of a stumbling block. And will lead many to BLAME Jesus for his followers.
    These folks will sour many to allow churches of ANY denomination in their communities, as they are BAD citizens.
     
  11. david gullikson

    david gullikson Banned

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    Couldn't that be proven by an outbreak, there, and not adjacent? Showing clearly that harm was caused? In one instance, if was traced, that 70 folks were infected by ONE superspreader, from a church meeting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
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  12. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    We had a horse on the property for a time. It belonged to a friend. I mentioned it to my lawyer one day and he completely freaked - get that horse off the property NOW! I was confused. Why? He explained it is an attractive nuisance. If some guy gets drunk, jumps the fence, tries to ride the horse and dies, we are responsible. Now instead consider if you tell the guy that if he has true faith he will ride that horse.

    Yep!
     
  13. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Now consider if that horse is known to be a killer and you still encourage him to ride that horse.
     
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  14. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well.. I was reading on board until you went all "fox news this, republicans that".

    Then the post turned ignorant.

    Then I stopped reading.
     
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  15. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    Yes you can be sued, but if you follow all the local ordinances and your pool I gated and fence a d you made every reasonable attempt to se sure your property, you will not loss the case.
     
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  16. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    And you and everyone else who gathered, knowingly disobeyed the quarantine. You accepted the risk when you walked in and sat down. You had as much reason to know a superspreader was statistically likely in a group of 60 parishioners, as that Paster or Sean Hannity. If its a minor child infected, Child Protective Services will be talking to the parents, not the church elders.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  17. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    But Dad was no longer rational. That church killed my dad through brainwashing. And his actions to risk his life show that.

    And when you get down to it, how can that NOT be true?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  18. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    So you never read it and decided it was ignorant because I mention Fox News. Got it. ;) What else do you know about this that you didn't read?
     
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  19. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Heres an important difference. At Liberty University you pay a tuition for a degree and that degree is dependent upon doing the assignments, passing the tests, keeping up with attendance expectations etc. You are penalized for not showing up when classes are being held. That presents a coercive effect by obliging you to break health guidelines to gain the benefit of the deal you paid tuition for. I can see that lawsuit easy.
    A call to prayer and Sunday services, is a call you can refuse to answer. Its still 100% on you if you are stupid enough to show up and stew in a viral stew in rows of other fools, just because your pastor wants you to and tries to guilt you into it. You can tell him to stick a pipe in it without losing value on a contract.
     
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  20. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    You don't understand how religion preys on its true believers. The are often NOT free to refuse if they have faith and love Christ.

    You never want to be lukewarm in your faith or God will vomit you out of his mouth, which is apparently worse than hell.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
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  21. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    You are going to have a heavy burden to show 'Dad' was so mentally and emotionally damaged he could not do what millions and millions of people do, every time there is a football game on, that they would prefer to see or every time they just want to sleep in instead.
     
  22. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Lets not treat people who attend a house of worshio, as though they have all shaved their heads, given every time to some guru, and refused to talk to their family for the last six months. People decide every single Sunday whether they want to go to church or not. Heck people get pissed at their pastors and choose to take their souls elsewhere, four streets down, near the railroad tracks!
     
  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not sure if their members can sue them, they put their faith in God, so if they get the virus is that not part of God's plan for them? (in their eyes)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    must churches are good and care about their members, others just want the money too bad
     
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  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if a God would allow a child to be molested in his house of worship, he isn't gonna care about someone catching a virus
     
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