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Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by CourtJester, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    nope......................

    atheism
    noun



    athe·ism | \ ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm \
    Definition of atheism


    1a : a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism

    Atheism by definition is not a religion, or a belief. In the exact same way not playing baseball isn't a sport or hobby.
    I lack a belief in a god or gods, that is how I fit the definition of atheism. I do not have an active belief, I have the opposite, a lack of belief. You know this, as I've been round and round with you in a dozen threads on this same moronic topic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  2. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    another unresponsive answer
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  3. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    You are correct on all counts, rahl admitted that he has reviewed and examined the evidence (see below) and found it insufficient, he does not lack belief he disbelieves, and as we can see he is claiming that a negative belief is not a belief, no surprise all he can do is dance around the dictionary all day incapable of further reason or explanation beyone here is the dictionary. His posting lack of belief when its really 'disbelief' is fraud on its face.
    wow talk about foot in the mouth!
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  4. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    No you rationalization makes the silly assumption that the only things you get are the result of prayer.

    Did you really not understand that I don’t believe in God, don’t pray and still get things.
     
  5. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    nope. As I lack belief in a god or gods, I am an atheist. That by definition is not a religion or a belief. Just like not playing baseball isn't a sport or hobby.
     
  6. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    your whole premise is based in deceit and fraud
    we know you looked at the evidence and chose to disbelieve. We have the goods proving the fraud, and cutsie pie jingos wont change that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  7. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Actually it's based on the definition of atheism.

    but in reality I looked at the claims being made, for which there is no evidence, and I lack belief in a god or gods.
     
  8. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Please detail the choosing process you refer to.
     
  9. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Which is part of our point. To disbelieve something, one has to believe against it. Within an absolute negative, or in the agnostic sense you have put forth. In order to hold that middle position, one has to believe that the evidence is insufficient, as the other two positions believe that the evidence is sufficient to uphold their positions.

    We actually hold that atheist believe that gods don't exist. They disbelieve in their existence. But they don't lack a belief. Not to speak for other, but I have repeatedly said that atheism, and agnosticism for that matter, are not religions. Even spiritualism isn't religion. Religion requires organization. But they are belief. The problem is that some people have it stuck in their heads that belief can only be a positive one about religion, ignoring that belief can also be a negative one about religion.
     
  10. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    That is irrelevant. Your lack of belief and my abundance of belief has no bearing on reality. Now whether that reality is that a Deity exists or that no gods exist remains to be seen. Neither of us can prove their position.

    I only addressed the logical faults with the statements as to whether or not prayers are answered.
     
  11. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    All this arguing about words. You should just look at the evidence and make a logical conclusion based on that. It's not belief or lack of belief, just an appraisal of the facts. If you're intelligent enough.

    I can only assume that the attempt to paint atheism as a belief rather than an examination of the facts is to somehow validate your own beliefs, so that you don't have to consider the evidence.
     
  12. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    The existence of multiple definitions for one word doesn't make one of the definitions wrong. Orange - to plagiarize one poster here - is by definition a fruit. Orange - still plagiarizing - is by definition a color.

    Please explain how is lack of belief a belief.
     
  13. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    and I keep correcting you. The definition shows I am correct.


    I don't care about any other definition. I conform to the definition I gave you, which is that I lack belief in a god or gods. That is not a religion or a belief. That is the opposite.
     
  14. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    literacy seems to be a huge shortcoming for certain people.
    Thats a nonsense conclusion, however Maquiscat explained the errors you people are making with that regard. best thing is simply to read his posts.
    The term isnt in question.
    You arent in a position to correct anyone.
    The conditions you attach precisely match disbelief (NOT lack of belief) as you continue to claim. You have been informed of your errors and/or sophist misrepresentations countless times.
    Seriously you dont know how to choose something? and the discussion devolves downward another notch.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  15. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    of course I am, and I have been doing so with ease for quite a while now.
    except they don't, as I have pointed out a hundred times. I do not "believe there are no gods" I lack belief there is a god or gods. One is an active belief, the other is the absence of belief.
    No, I have been trolled by you and others in a dozen threads and I've refuted every attempt you've tried to make.
     
  16. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Thats an agnostic.

    Im agnostic and my religious belief system is as follows:

    I lack belief in God
    AND
    I lack disbelief in God

    Thats my belief system, my religion.

    Swensson can now sleep well knowing he pegged you correctly right out of the box.

    Its painfully clear you need other people to help you sort out the mess you created for yourself. One minute you are a disbeliever and the next an agnostic, EVERY belief BUT lack of belief.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  17. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    He's wrong.

    Disbelief is not something one chooses. Disbelief is not a choice.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201109/disbelief-is-not-choice

    Disbelief has more to do with cognitive flexibility.
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00426-018-1034-3
     
  18. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    by definition, that's atheist.

    word salad completely irrelevant to what is being discussed.

    huh?
    I've created nothing. I've corrected you at every turn and refuted every argument you've tried to throw at me.
    and then there is what I actually am, which is an atheist. I lack belief in a god or gods.
     
  19. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    "Thus, while sexual orientation is not a matter of choice, we should realize that neither are one's sincerely held beliefs about divinities."

    same with your second link this is false on its face:

    "Religious belief systems consist of strict rules and rituals that offer adherents certainty, consistency, and stability."

    As agnostic my religion is ever evolving and being modified, and I dont practice any rituals any more than secular atheist humanists practice rituals. Purely nonsense

    where do you dig up these fruitcakes that think people are pure automatons?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  20. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    yep always one foot over the deep edge.

    I do not disbelief (reject) the existence of God, therefore its impossible for me to be an atheist.

    It is a fact that theists lack disbelief in God, so I am equally a theist with the ****ed up logic you are selling.

    you throw words around you do not understand.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  21. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    nope. both my feet are firmly planted on the line.
    I didn't say you were an atheist. I said lack of belief in a god or gods is atheist.
    you've already had this grammatical train wreck addressed and refuted.
    lol, I've proven that I do understand them. It's how I'm able to demolish your moronic premises in all of these moronic threads you start on the same exact topic.
     
  22. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    It would have been a good idea to check the various State constitutions before making that blanket statement =
    ***
    Text of Section 6:
    Freedom of Worship

    All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences. No man shall be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship, or to maintain any ministry against his consent. No human authority ought, in any case whatever, to control or interfere with the rights of conscience in matters of religion, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious society or mode of worship. But it shall be the duty of the Legislature to pass such laws as may be necessary to protect equally every religious denomination in the peaceable enjoyment of its own mode of public worship.
    https://ballotpedia.org/Article_1,_Texas_Constitution
    ***
    Text of Section 4:
    Freedom of Religion, Speech, Press, Assembly and Petition

    No law shall be enacted respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
    https://ballotpedia.org/Article_I,_Hawaii_Constitution
    ***
    Text of Section 4:
    Guaranty of Religious Liberty

    The exercise and enjoyment of religious faith and worship shall forever be guaranteed; and no person shall be denied any civil or political right, privilege, or capacity on account of his religious opinions; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be construed to dispense with oaths or affirmations, or excuse acts of licentiousness or justify polygamous or other pernicious practices, inconsistent with morality or the peace or safety of the state; nor to permit any person, organization, or association to directly or indirectly aid or abet, counsel or advise any person to commit the crime of bigamy or polygamy, or any other crime. No person shall be required to attend or support any ministry or place of worship, religious sect or denomination, or pay tithes against his consent; nor shall any preference be given by law to any religious denomination or mode of worship. Bigamy and polygamy are forever prohibited in the state, and the legislature shall provide by law for the punishment of such crimes.
    https://ballotpedia.org/Article_I,_Idaho_Constitution
    ***
    Text of Section 3:
    Religious Freedom

    “ That no religion shall be established by law; that no preference shall be given by law to any religious sect, society, denomination, or mode of worship; that no one shall be compelled by law to attend any place of worship; nor to pay any tithes, taxes, or other rate for building or repairing any place of worship, or for maintaining any minister or ministry; that no religious test shall be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under this state; and that the civil rights, privileges, and capacities of any citizen shall not be in any manner affected by his religious principles.
    https://ballotpedia.org/Article_I,_Alabama_Constitution
    ***
    Text of Section 3:
    Freedom of Worship; Religious Liberty

    The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination or preference, shall forever be allowed in this state to all humankind; and no person shall be rendered incompetent to be a witness on account of his or her opinions on matters of religious belief; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of this state.
    https://ballotpedia.org/Article_I,_New_York_Constitution

    You can check the others at your convenience.
     
  23. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Atheists are not wanted in Texas =

    Text of Section 4:
    Religious Tests

    No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.
    https://ballotpedia.org/Article_1,_Texas_Constitution#cite_ref-tx_1-0
     
  24. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I agree that if you believe that there are no gods, then that is a belief. If you believe that there is insufficient evidence, then that is a belief (albeit a different belief). I guess if you have never heard of God, perhaps you can be said to lack either belief, but that is not the topic being argued here, I think (but I guess in particular, "having insufficient evidence" is not a belief, but "believing that there is insufficient evidence" is).

    I'd say on the view suggested by rahl is not that he doesn't have beliefs whatsoever, but that he doesn't have a (positive) belief in the existence of a god. By virtue of that, he fulfils the lack-of-belief definition of atheism, making him an atheist in that definition. If he on top of that believes that there are no gods, or that there is insufficient evidence, or that Roger Moore is the best Bond actor is perhaps interesting, but not important for whether he fulfils the definition of atheism.
     
  25. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Define and describe "agnostic religious system of beliefs".

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080414145705.htm

    Science. Like it or not, it's here to stay.
     

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