Oops! Russian Military In Nato Country

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Jeannette, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let me tell you about American "ghettos"
    In New York it was the Irish poor, then the Asian poor
    and now the Hispanic poor.
    But the Irish moved on to middle class. The Asians now
    own a large chunk of America and soon the Hispanics
    will socially move upward.
    In the end it will be the poor white trash who are at the
    bottom. And then maybe they themselves will start to do
    better for themselves.
     
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  2. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Oh for heavens sake man. My point (one last time) was that the SU-57 is only superior to US aircraft (assuming it is - I don't have the technical knowledge to say one way or the other) IF IT ACTUALLY EXISTS in the numbers required.

    Until it does you may as well be arguing that your pet magic unicorn is superior to the F-35. What matters is what is happening in the real world not what it says on the internet. 75 aircraft that is what Russia has actually ordered v 3000 F-35s, the bulk of which will be in US hands. Are you seriously telling me you believe 75 SU-57s would beat a couple of thousand F-35s???


    Pretty, much. You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that the (modern) NATO is all about Russia. Its not. NATO offers support to and in turn and attracts support from scores of countries around the world. Those nations are attracted by the wealth, technology, business opportunities and political power that NATO can muster as a group. Russia can do the same. Ask yourself why no one is flocking to Russia's banner the same way.

    Finally no-one in NATO wants a war with Russia. Even if it didn't have nuclear weapons what would be the point? It sure as hell doesn't need the living space. Ask yourself - what does Russia have now that the Western world needs? What can it get from Russia that it can't buy elsewhere on the open market? And it' s up to Russia to come up with those goods and services, not the West to come up with suggestions. You have oil and gas, OK what else? What else does the West need from Russia other than an end to Putin's sabre rattling.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
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  3. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Oh really? what is the pay of a conscripted IDF soldier?

    I doubt that. Also this is about how well Russia would prosper if it wasn't economically blocked by the West. I'm contesting it would do much better under a true democracy... since I have no doubt that such a move will involve the removal of the economic blocking. Such a thing of having or not having some massive economical block matters greatly. I have no doubt about that.

    My example of invading... has to do with that western democracies have a tendency of tossing away their policies when the people vote differently. Tossing away policies is costing democratic nations a massive fortune. You are missing the point by focusing on war, instead of focusing on if indeed a western democracies have massive shifts in policies and if that is throwing away lots of money. A dictatorship... is almost always a massive continuation of the same policies. And so... that's using taxes way more efficient.
     
  4. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    What is the Russkie training the fighters for?
    Let me guess: to help Bashar to massacre his own people. :(
     
  5. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you understand English?
     
  6. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Yes, just not yours.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  7. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Probably yes!
    Yeah, Nato is about bunch of people who don't want to lose their payroll.

    Oh then it's Russia that's sabre rattling with bases and fleets all over the world? Thanks for that bit of info.

    Let's see now, what else does Russia have other than oil and gas, I mean 1/3 of the world's resources is quite a lot? (Stop salivating).

    Timber
    Copper
    Diamonds
    Lead
    Zinc
    Bauxite
    Nickel
    Tin
    Mercury
    Platinum
    Gold
    Silver
    Nickel
    Titanium
    Manganese
    Potash
    Uranium
    Rare Earths
    Cobalt
    Molybdenum
    Tungsten
    Aluminum


    And then there's water and lots of it, something that will be needed dearly in the Middle East.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  8. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russias training Assad's army to stop the terrorists who we support, and their genocide of Christians and other minorities. Does that answer your question?
     
  9. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    Not really.
    Why should the Bashar-Pootin Alliance work for Christians and other minorities?
    They just disturb such gangsters.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  10. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    How does NATO "surround" Russia? There isn't a member of NATO within thousand of miles of Russia's northern or southern border.

    And not one close to Russia in the East unless you count the U.S. state of Alaska which is far from a threat to Russia.
     
  11. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see. So, you do not understand English.
     
  12. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    No I just don't understand you.
     
  13. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    No. It's simply a case of Putin wishing to return Russia to it's historic Cold War Era position of Global Geopolitical relevancy. An era he grew up in. And its never gong to happen. The rest of the World has moved on, he needs to as well. The Western Allies certainly have.


    Yes all valuable communities. Most of them available from other sources including my own country Australia. Which coincidentally has a GDP only slightly less than Russia's while only having aprox 1/6 of the population. The difference?

    We have an open economy which, within certain broad limits welcomes foreign investment. We also have a free and independent legal system.

    Russia doesn't have either. It doesn't even encourage innovation and risk among it 's own entrepreneurial class. Foreign investors can never be certain their investment in Russian companies will never be 'appropriated' by the oligarchs tied to Putin. Any Entrepreneur who comes up with a valuable product or service has to constantly look over their shoulder in expectation of 'friendly' takeover by Kremlin linked business interests. And if they are foolish enough to lodge legal appeals and public protests against this action? The next thing they know the Russian Tax Police are kicking in their doors.

    The business world would be beating a path to Russia's doors if they had any confidence in Russia's ability to stick to a deal.
     
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  14. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I might be wrong, but hasn't Putin "appropriated" companies from "tax cheats" and "criminals"
    and then tried to sell them again? You could invest all your money in some Russian venture,
    and not only lose your company but lose your freedom, or worse.
     
  15. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So Christians are "gangsters" huh?
    Any Catholic ISIS? Any Protestant Jihadis?
    To the Christian West the Middle East is a cesspit of Islamic corruption, violence,
    dictatorship and poverty.
     
  16. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since you are having such difficulties with it then I guess I'll have to forgive you for being "off the point". Sorry, I didn't realize that. I tried rephrasing it but if you don't understand it then you don't understand it. No foul, no problem. Maybe if I expressed it in American, short-cut cliches it'd be easier for you but I'm not very good with "rap", "jive", or popular American phrases ... 'know I'm sayin'? :smile:
     
  17. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, then you believe that the Russian Federation should be subservient to Washington? I don't think the Russian people want that. Isn't it what they had it in the 90's when their wealth was being stolen and sent off shore, and the Russians were going hungry.

    You must understand that there are two Russia's. The real one, and the Russia as it's being written up in the Western press. In the real one Russia is proving its relevancy, and little by little we are losing ours.



    The GDP is not a reflection of the standard of living, since the Ruble is deliberately kept low to make Russia's exports more competitive. This makes everything in Russia much cheaper than in the West.

    As for not having a free and independent legal system - you're thinking of Russia as it's presented in the Western press again. In the actual Russia they do have a free and independent legal system.
     
  18. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Of course. That's the way it should be. And if the world is ever to know a degree of peace, then that's the way it much be. Russia must be ground down to being a medium sized country in Europe with their declining population concentrated, their military permanently decimated, and only their memories of greatness remaining, and those will fade in time.
     
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  19. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But they were tax cheats and criminals, otherwise they wouldn't have run out of Russia when Putin told them to pay their taxes. Also why shouldn't Russia confiscate and sell the companies of the tax cheats to cover the governments losses? Doesn't that money belong to the Russian people. Do you realize that billions were stolen from Russia and being sent off shore by those who had no allegiance to Russia?
     
  20. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    And that will never happen in your lifetime or anyone else's.

    Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia all border Russia and are NATO members. They shouldn't be and should have never been. The vast majority of the Russian population resides West of the Urals.....nobody gives a **** if a NATO member is on their Southern border.
     
  21. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Don't be so certain.
     
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  22. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Never say never....Archie boy...SU was "indestructible" according to a German Jew named Chaim Goldman???....aka V I Lenin.

    But the vatniks are doing a good job destroying themselves with Krokodil, alcoholism, HIV, machorka, Russki Mir, Covid19...etc.

    Someone popped a vessel in their kapusta it seems by saying Balts, Poles, should've never been in NATO.

    Suck it up , dude, they in NATO and happy about it despite Kremlin fake news about mass protests about it. In time Georgia, Ukraine will follow. What's Kremlin pocket rat going to do?
     
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  23. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    If communism and Russian dominance were so great then why did every nation occupied by Soviet troops dump their communist governments and apply for NATO membership about ten minutes after the last Soviet troops crossed the border?

    exaggerated of course but still effectively true.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  24. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mentioned Stalin, yet missed out on the amount of deaths by Lenin and Trotsky. Wasn't the fighting going on for years, and wasn't Trotsky the head of the Red Army when tens of thousands of churches were being burned; many with people inside? To be honest I think most of the deaths in Russia occurred during the first few years under Lenin and Trotsky, rather than under Stalin. The ones Stalin killed, were probably those who committed the atrocities - so good riddance to them.

    Looks like though, we're back to our anti Putin propaganda warfare. Nothing like denigrating anyone who commits humanitarian acts for having made us look bad. Kind of reminds me of the time we bombed a hospital in Afghanistan and the media to cover it up, accused Russia of bombing 6 hospitals in Syria - all non existent.


    [​IMG]

    Those voices, those voices
    they keep telling me:
    "Fear Putin they say
    for what you can't see".

    Is that him up there!
    Oh no he's down here.
    My God I think he's everywhere. Help! - Jeannette






     
  25. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    QUOTE="Jeannette, post: 1071586724, member: 59696"]

    You mentioned Stalin, yet missed out on the amount of deaths by Lenin and Trotsky. Wasn't the fighting going on for years, and wasn't Trotsky the head of the Red Army when tens of thousands of churches were being burned; many with people inside? To be honest I think most of the deaths in Russia occurred during the first few years under Lenin and Trotsky, rather than under Stalin. The ones Stalin killed, were probably those who committed the atrocities - so good riddance to them.

    Looks like though, we're back to our anti Putin propaganda warfare. Nothing like denigrating anyone who commits humanitarian acts for having made us look bad. Kind of reminds me of the time we bombed a hospital in Afghanistan and the media to cover it up, accused Russia of bombing 6 hospitals in Syria - all non existent.

    [/QUOTE]

    There's karma in the thought that nearly all those Communists who helped found the "modern" state
    of Communist Imperial Russia were killed. A bit of this happened in China too. Should anyone ask you
    what Communism actually is then you won't be too wrong in saying it's a political mechanism to gain
    absolute power.
    The real reason we denigrate Putin isn't for his "humanitarian acts" but the fact that this Communist
    Stasi operative turned the clock back on Russian democracy just as effectively as Lenin did. And he
    became, like Xi, the new emperor.

     
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