How many of you are concerned with governmental excess power?

While I really want to see us all work together in this crisis and follow sound leadership, I am concerned about how power is being used- or possibly, being set up to be abused. We should be aware that there is a very important precedent being set, that may set the stage for future perils and loss of freedoms.

It is in the extent of controls we are allowing governments at all levels to exercise power on pretty much a discretionary basis. When you tell people they can't leave their homes without what a cop will accept as a justifiable reason, when you want to fine people for going to church or any other normal freedom- this is bordering on martial law. Not quite yet, but continuing to increase toward that level.

This is not to say there is no basis for these policies- but history tells us that anytime a governing power is allowed a privilege for the best of purposes, it winds up being used for a number of alternative purposes, usually ones we never wanted to authorize. This has been true with the powers of the patriot act, things like the Fisa courts, and the power of the intelligence community to trace every person in the country through cell phones, record calls, copy emails and many others- without warrants. In other words, once you open the box and let that power get in their hands, it seems near impossible to take it back, and a virtual surety that it will wind up being used wrongfully. If that power turns into a revenue stream, the chance of it being abused jumps dramatically.

We decided that due to the drug problem, we would allow arbitrary confiscation of many things- and a person stopped for a traffic violation that had a sizeable amount of cash might have that cash taken as suspected drug money, and would be told to prove it wasn't. However, recovering such confiscations (called "asset forfeitures") soon became very difficult, and police groups began to consider that as an income they could depend on and budget it, often for discretionary purchases such as armored cars and hot rods. Seriously, that's being done. If you doubt that, just do a little research on google.

We have already opened this door to more personal control over our lives by allowing these lockdowns. It behooves us all to make sure that the less scrupulous in power don't take it as a license for the future.

Your opinion?

 

My latest concern is the biggest crook known to the world is attempting to take control of the handling of 2.2 trillion dollars.

 

That's your concern? My guess is it probably wouldn't be if Obama had the purse strings. I believe your concerns are disjointed. Your freedoms are being tested.

 

The situation we are in will pass and we will go back to work, school, to bars and restaurants, etc. Let’s not get hysterical

 

Hysterical was pushing the panic button that led to this...

 

What worries me is that the mindset of we, the people, is moving even further down the road of "only the government can save us." Sure, in times of major emergency, we must have the federal government involved and directing things. But I am afraid that many people will start expecting this for lesser and lesser emergencies. Eventually, for every little bad thing that happens, people will expect the federal government to jump in and save whoever stumbled. We are halfway down that road already. Self responsibility will be replaced with government responsibility. And a huge number of people will be only too happy to trade their self-sovereignty for allegiance to an over-reaching central authority that provides their food and shelter and healthcare.

 

Yes, Nancy Pelosi is known for that kind of crap. Don't worry, the president will see that it's done properly.

 

Yes i have those concerns.

I'm not impressed with Trump on most things, but i am impressed with his restraint in using the federal government to gain more control. Restraint i am not sure other leaders would have shown.

The federal government doesn't exist to get things done, it exists to uphold and preserve the constitution.. time for agendas to take a hike...

 

Given that we'll hand over our rights so easily, all anyone needs to do from now on is release a contagious virus to get us to fall into line.

 

While i agree that the ease with which we have submitted is troubling i also see it's necessary. The true test for America is how we respond in the future.

 

We have had a few periods in our history when the government was mostly in total control of the entire nation and had the opportunity to become authoritarian, even tyrannical if they wished but didn't. These were times when faced with extreme adversity the government stepped in and established order and a plan to lead the country out of it's difficulties. There was the great depression and world war two to name a few. We are now faced with a much different set of problems but the government has in many cases had to react to situations with a sparsity of information but did so with what they had to go on. To date the shutdowns/lockdowns have been had varying success but those who have adhered to them have done so without complaint. It appears to be a matter of cooperation rather than any sort of coercion. There isn't an order of Marshall Law nor do I believe there will be because our government mostly shies away from such extremes. What I am saying is I do not think that Americans need fear the government, we are the freest nation on the planet and when this passes we'll go back to some level of normalcy. I am more afraid of governments that say "You're on your own" like what we witnessed in Venezuela. Conversely I do fear the current Democrat party and have no illusions about what would happen if they owned all three branches of government. Imagine the likes of AOC, Omar and Tlaib calling the shots, how long before the Constitution became a memory and the US became a prison?

 

First I commend the content of this post. Not a word of this do I disagree with. I think the civil liberties implications of these emergency powers to restrict movement and monitor behavior are indeed sobering, and it will take the courts to define some clear boundaries and parameters to the breadth and scope of governmental reach, especially executive/ law enforcement reach.

 

The worst excesses are being done at state not federal level while a lot of leftist on this board have complained bitterly about this, the fact is that short of a martial law declaration there isn't much more the federal government can do. And the minute Trump did declare martial law the left would lose what's left of its collective minds.

 

Good points - but this is not a "Red vs Blue" issue - the general trend towards giving up individual liberties has been going on full steam for a long time - decades - under both red and blue admins.

It is easy to point out extremists on one side of the fence - and ignore the bigger systemic and structural problem.

Our current election is between two Establishment wonks - so no worries about some AOC take-over - for the next few years.

 

The House leaders ( Nancy , Schiff and Nadler) all belong in prison for treason and sedition

 

You get the point. I think that we have more wild cards in congress than ever before, and the structure that used to control such people seems to be unable to do so. Crazy ideas are being treated as worth of consideration and support, and that says our stability is at risk.

 

I would say most people, especially the political ones, partisan ones, don't care and sometimes want government to be most powerful. That is if government is forcing their agenda on the rest of us. It's only when government forces someone else's, the other party's agenda on them that they become riled up and upset and bent on fighting the power of government. But if government if forcing their political agenda on everyone else, they're happy and keep throwing more and more power to government.

 

Many of us tried to warn people when Congress started handing over power to the Executive Office after 9/11. But Republicans thought everything would be OK because there was a Republican in the White House. We tried to warn you that the power went with the office, not the man. The same people who were so eager for Bush to have executive authority started screaming and rending their shirts over Executive power the second Obama was elected ... oops.

As to the current lock-downs, I have to ask you, is your personal freedom more important than the right of doctor's and nurse's right to life?

Cause what you are really asking for is for them to take the risk for your wants. If you spread disease as
an asymptomatic carrier, it's not yourself you are putting at risk - it's the doctors and nurses who are put at greater risk,
and considering the current strain on their lives (many have been working non-stop for weeks on end) is your right to make money more important than their right to life?

Sometimes, it's not all about you.

 

You'll be hard pressed to find someone in Washington that not a crook with 2 trillion to manage..

 

Was that during Clinton or Mr Obatard?

 

Sadly, I have to agree.... it's selfish and very short-sighted, but true.

 

But this is not about promoting irresponsibility, Daniel- it it the opposite. It is about taking personal responsibility, and limiting the authority you give to government to deny that and impose constraints as they see fit, rather than when necessary and appropriate. It is about keeping the power to control that we give to government under control so that we keep it of the people, for the people, by the people.

 

In a perfect world, everyone would do the right thing - that's basically your argument.
Do we live in a perfect world?

 

You should probably learn the definitions of treason and sedition so you don’t make the same silly and moronic statement again.

 

Very True, short term political goal seem to always ride the long term effects which is usually bad for those who decided to gain short term. I'm sure the Democrats, Reid, Schumer and company never thought by Reid's first use of the nuclear option they'd have it used against them. McConnell, Trump, the GOP were able to place two SCOTUS justices that probably wouldn't have been confirmed without the use of the nuclear option. That was stupid on the democrats part, unless they thought the senate would remain in their hands forever.

I'm still peeved over the use and uses of the nuclear option when it comes to conformation. I liked the 60 vote threshold. It meant all justices had to meet the approval of at least some of the opposing party's senators. It meant we wouldn't get extreme justices, now we'll be stuck with the most extreme justices, either left or right depending if one party has the presidency and control of the senate. Dumb, dumb, dumb.