US to remove Patriots, other military assets from Saudi Arabia

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...tary-assets-saudi-arabia-200507183258484.html

There was no way that Russia and OPEC were going to continue to subsidize the US Shale Ponzi Scheme. Saudi Arabia is not going to change their mind because the US takes out the Patriot system - A system that didn't work anyway.

What they may do is buy the S-400 System from Russia.

We have lost the ME - Syria - Iran are Client States of Russia/China - Iraq is not far behind. Oman and Qatar are on good terms with Iran.

Saudi Arabia is already under pressure to move towards China as they are now the largest customer.

Our Relations with Turkey have not been great of late either.

 

Unfortunatly its complicated. I think they don't need us as much as WE think they do. They could easily buy Russian equipment, and possibly with their current friendly relationship and in relation to the Iranian situation get more help from Israel if it came down to tooth and nail.

This seems like a knee jerk reaction for domestic political gain more than a long term strategy, I'm predicting meaningless concessions by KSA and back to the status quo as usual.

 

Excellent. We should abandon the middle east entirely except for Israel.

 

Exactly - We should have been out of there after desert storm. 3 decades ago - its been downhill ever since. It has been a huge money pit - and for what purpose ? - to put a few bucks into the pockets of the international financiers who profit from war.

To a large degree we should abandon Israel as well - with respect to leaving them up to their own path - letting them fly solo once in awhile - not being dragged around like a lapdog - where the purposes are inextricably linked.

 

Yep. They will run it up to $45 just like they did last time. Just enough to keep us out of the market.

 

I agree with much of your assessment. The geopolitical chessboard has changed - The dominant position that we once had -not just with El Saud but over the world - is not what it once was. We used to just whisper our desires into the ear of another nation and they would submit - We were the only economic game in town - and everyone wanted to play.

China surpassed the US in terms of purchasing power in 2013 - EU economy is same as US - India and a few others - the same.

The other big change is military - technology has spread - other nations have caught up - and the US really has no great ability to protect - as the Patriot failure showed.

At the end of the day Saudi Arabia is in a tough spot - will play both sides of the fence. My suggestion is that our influence w/r to Saudi Arabia - and the middle east in general - has waned.

Perhaps not such a bad thing to be distancing ourselves from Saudi Arabia -
Torture in Saudi prisons: 'Most oppressive era we have witnessed'

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/torture-saudi-prisons-oppressive-era-witnessed-190606091245089.html?utm_source=website&utm_medium=article_page&utm_campaign=read_more_links

 

Who is on the Russian side again? Syria, Iran, Palestine. That's pretty much it. Some of the gulf states would rather work with the Jews than Iran and Russia.

No, I think the status of the ME will remain largely unchanged for the time being as its problems remain:

1. Arbitrary borders not drawn along sectarian lines.
2. Hugely valuable resources in dirt poor nations put the keys to the kingdom in too few hands.
3. Religious extremism and the effectiveness of asymmetrical warfare against modern militaries.

 

Many are working with Russia - and you forgot China - in this respect Russia and China both wish to increase their influence in the region - as does Iran - and when it comes to who is working with who - it becomes complicated.

This is about US influence - not whether or not some will work with the Israeli's.

Syria is obviously working with The Russia/China/Iran Consortia - Iraq is lost - the writing is on the wall - we will salvage some relationship but they will be working with the Consortia and Europe as much as possible.

Qatar - although they were one of the main nations supporting the radical Islamist proxy war in Syria - deals with Iran - as does Oman.

The question is then - where is the US influence - what is left Turkey ? They just purchased the S-400 last time I checked - put them on the "we are losing influence and Russia is gaining influence" list.

The one big elephant in the room left is Saudi Arabia - and some of the gulf states that come with El Saud as kind of a package deal - who cares about Bahrain anyway.

China is now El Saud's main customer ..dealing with China in Petro-Yuan - which is a big deal - we don't want competition to the Dollar as the international system of payments.

Now we are pulling our Patriot missiles out. Smells like losing our influence with El Saud - The only place in the ME of significance that we still have influence (Israel notwithstanding)

Not sure why you mentioned Palestine - as it does not factor into the Equation - and Russia has not gotten involved.

This is not what Winning looks like - is it !?

 

It's better to fight your enemies outside your borders than inside.

 

Wait a week, opportunities will arise that did not exist today for us to get involved in the ME. It's our nature not to learn from our mistakes. You'd think after Reagen and Lebanon we would be wiser.

 

I declare that the late Otto von Bismarck would say if he were alive today, "There is nothing there worth the bones of a single Kansas rifleman."

 

There have been a lot of rumors circulating in Iran arising from a very unusual tweet/post by Iran's Supreme Leader, praising one of the lesser regarded Shia saints/imams (known for capitulating to the Sunni despot of his day to reach a peaceful settlement) for something that particular Shia figure has never been praised for: bravery. The tweet has rightly been viewed as a sign that Iran's Supreme Leader is thinking about some form of capitulation -- something that is most likely when read in conjunction with other reports, when it comes to trying to work on a 'modus vivendi' with the Saudis.

It seems that to show its 'good faith' in trying to resolve problems with the Wahhabi kingdom, Iran basically allowed the new Iraqi prime minister to win the confidence of the Iraqi parliament despite his known ties to Saudi (and US) intelligence services. More broadly, it does seem like Iran is going out of its way to see if it can find a way to close differences with Saudi Arabia, trying to see if it can forge some common understanding to settle issues in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Yemen.

While the US decision to withdraw the patriot batteries may have had more to do with US being upset with the Saudis over their oil policies (and, left unsaid, the anger among US/Israeli officials over the possible willingness of the kingdom to consider a rapprochement of sorts with Iran), the Pentagon did mention that it doesn't consider Iran an imminent threat to the Saudis anymore. And that itself is one of the clues that, behind the scenes, Iran is working hard to solve some of its problems with Saudi Arabia (even if the effort appears, from my perspective, more in the nature of capitulating than really negotiating with them).

 

To what end - Do explain how we manage to spend 1.2 Trillion dollars annually - chasing a few Islamist Extremist groups around the globe.

 

To ask the question is to answer it! That money is not just spent, but also received, by a lot of people who have quite a vested interest in seeing the spending continue! And that is not all: there are a lot of 'influential individuals' whose influence and careers is based on these kind of policies. And then add the pro Israel Lobby, and their enormous influence in American politics, and the deranged extremists aka Christian Zionists from America's cuckoo land, and you have various projects (such as PNAC) which find a way to become the blue print for American foreign policy even after its architects and authors are no longer in the picture.

 

Yes IM - War is a racket

 

It is a racket -- especially for those who wage it without being personally affected by it, except finding themselves richer or better off.

 

Wait.....doesn't the USA have nukes that are under Turkish control (speaking of assets in the wrong hands)

 

I don't think the Turks actually have control of the nukes - located of course on US bases - which is effectively US territory

 

I'm not sure why the international financiers want to maintain constant war - sure they get a bit richer - but - essentially "They" already have all the money - so it is more an exercise in keeping that wealth - away from the greedy hands of the raging masses.

I don't see how destabilizing the world serves a purpose to this end - ramping up the arms race - and so on - at a time when serious environmental issues need be addressed - talking Pollution - overpopulation - and industrialization - rather than CO2.

 

While influenced and affected by ideological currents, which themselves are a tool to connect different interests to fall under one path or flag, ultimately the calculations of those who you speak about are about both things: to maintain and expand their influence over the world's resources and riches, while denying it to many others. Both (maintaining and expanding the wealth, and denying it to many others) are important if an imbalance of power and influence is to be preserved.

 

That does seem to be the path - there is a big scramble going on for whats left - economic war is under way.

 

First of all - You can do it for much less.
Second - If an Islamist Extremist group will blow up ( and they can !! ) an American city, the direct and indirect damage will be more than the amount you specify..
And that doesn't include all human life that will be lost .

 

If the extremists already have the capability to blow up a US City - then we best start targeting them. It doesn't cost 1.2 Trillion to target these sophisticated extremists you are scared of - and to some degree - justified in being scared - but not to the point of 1.2 Trillion per year - for a risk of harm that is 400 times less than the risk of harm from walking.

I realize that Al Qaeda- ISIS - and assorted affiliates have some Sophisticated military equipment - not on the level of taking out a whole city.
The most sophisticated stuff they have - We gave them - shoulder launched surface to air missiles and TOW missiles.

Last time I checked we were on the same side of Al Qaeda in 2 wars. Looks like we have the situation well in hand- and it didn't cost no 1.2 Trillion per year.

Next ?

 

Do you really believe places like Saudia Arabia cares about the environment?

 

El Saud does not rank very high on the list of international financiers within the US Establishment - so not sure why you brought them up.