Is the US Constitution flawed?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by An Taibhse, May 13, 2020.

  1. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    But neither do their job right. The same problem for the senate applies to the house as well. Wyoming should not have a rep based on pop size alone. That’s not even getting into the problems of voting and how wasteful it is. They need to be reformed to better accept their position.
     
  2. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Right but there’s a difference between adjusting the constitution to encompass future advancement and undermining the purpose of the constitution as it was written.

    For instance addressing abortion may be needed as the founders didn’t even conceive that to be an issue.

    However attempting to change the constitution to say remove the electoral college or take away or grossly restrict freedom of religion or the right of the people to keep and bear arms would be antithesis to what the founders intended and wholly unacceptable.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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  3. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Sure it is flawed but, overall, it has proven to be effective. The left wants more power for federal government and the right wants less but that is politics not governmental design. I support the constitution as written.
     
  4. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    I think the constitution was fine until Abraham Lincoln came along and started a war murdering hundreds of thousands of his own countrymen to subsume the constitution and enforce federal authority over the states. Which led to the constitution being interpreted too many times to give the federal government authority to do what it was NEVER authorized to do.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
  5. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    I agree - there are situations in existence that could not have been foreseen by the founding fathers. Abortion is a great example.

    But that would also have to be accepted as a truth for the right to bear arms. Surely, the founding fathers could not have anticipated automatic weapons - designed for military use - to be in the hands of citizens. Or the incidences of school shootings, where those arms have been used to mow down children. I think there is a case for gun laws without violating the rights the founding fathers intended with 2A.
     
  6. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    See I disagree. The founders had just come out of a war where a tyrannical government was attempting to murder them for their desire for freedom. They were willing to fight and die for that cause.

    They fully understood the dangers of having a government who has firepower that you do not have. And yes while they would have been aggrieved at the school shootings and murder rate they would have weighed those against the existential threat of a tyrannical government with weapons the citizenry wasn’t allowed to have and they would never curtail the strength of the second.

    That’s why the second is the only one which states explicitly, “shall not be infringed”. Which in reality implies that ALL of our rights could theoretically be infringed upon EXCEPT the second. Why? Because the second ensures that we at least have a fighting chance to keep the rest.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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  7. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Whether we agree or disagree, neither of us can know what foresight the forefathers had. Or what their reactions would be to the situations we see today.

    But I would hazard a guess that the numbers of people who are arming themselves for the purpose of thwarting a tyrannical government are few.
     
  8. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The "flaw" is not in the constitution, but the propensity of some to bend it to suit their agenda.
    The constitution itself handles everything as it was intended to do.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
  9. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    This is addresses by the 10th Amendment.
    The fact this line of argument was dismissed as silly by the court aside...
    Do you believe the founding fathers would have taken exception to the armed citizenry, from which the militia was drawn, having access to an AR15?
    Why?
    In the last 18th century, and before, and beyond, these massacres were called "Indian raids".
    Do you believe the founding fathers would have taken exception to frontiersmen having access to an AR15?
    Why?
    If there is, it is mighty small and extraordinarily limited.
    But, feel free to make that case.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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  10. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think there are a number of areas that warrant constitution level improvements, but I would not label the Constitution "flawed" and to assert is is inferior to others is nonsensical because very few countries (any???) even have a working bona fide constitution.

    There are a number of sensible amendments being touted in the Convention of the States effort, for example.
     
  11. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    My position is that that any laws we enact must contribute to forming a more perfect union, establishing Justice, insuring domestic Tranquility, providing for the common "defence", promoting the general Welfare, and securing the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,

    Any old laws (whether in the constitution or not) that no longer contribute to the above should be discarded.

    What I'm saying is that laws should be vetted for compliance with the preamble before and above anything else.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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  12. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because re structuring the best plan on the globe opens us up to a variety of liberty stealing options.
     
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    trying to bribe a foreign power via tax payer funds to announce an investigation into on ones opponent is definitely not something the founders had in mind
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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  14. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Positive rights are not rights in any enlightenment sense of rights. What you are talking about are either legal promises or entitlements.
     
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  15. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is anything in life perfect?
    I think that the US constitution is extremely elegant and well designed to create a fresh form of government that had its own inbuilt checks and balances, and it offered a means of amending it as time went on.
    The preamble is probably the most excellent part in its ability to sum up what we are all about as a society.
    It grants people the power of freedom, but with greater power comes greater responsibility, and the country can only be as good as we the people.
     
  16. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My God. He should have been impeached for that.
     
  17. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, Article V IMO, is the single most important provision of the Constitution.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
  18. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I asked in the OP, not for the same generalities seen in other posts, but for specifics.
     
  19. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    And what does specifically that mean regarding the Constitution as it stands now?
     
  20. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    He was, that and other charges. But, he is still in office.
     
  21. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    What amendments are being proposed?
     
  22. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow. How did that happen? With all that evidence it should have been a slam dunk.
     
  23. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Many flaws in the Constitution.

    The Obvious (most glaring ones) are:

    **The Electoral College
    **The 2nd Amendment
    **Lifetime Appt. of S. Court Justices
     
  24. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Your statement is one of confirmation bias, the majority in the Senate disagreed with you and saw the impeachment as a partisan political effort to avoid facing Trump in the upcoming election. The Democrats in the House got their impeachment vote, but the question is, will it have impact on the 2020 election? IMO, few were convinced to change how they would vote. And, the DEMS left too much time for the GOP to mount their reactive attacks between now and the election, a process already started, but which will be increased come the reports of Duram’s Team which will hit the public much closer to the election timeframe.
     
  25. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    That was my answer to your question as to how it is flawed. Going forward, I think the importance of the Preamble to the Constitution should be stressed. And Presidents should stop appointing attorneys to the Supreme Court. We need people who think of the Constitution of the United States, not as just a legal document, but as a statement of moral standards.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020

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