Is the US Constitution flawed?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by An Taibhse, May 13, 2020.

  1. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    7,238
    Likes Received:
    4,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yet, there is no consensus resulting in any serious move to push amendments, though the number of Justices is a matter of law, not provisioned in the Constitution.
     
  2. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    26,997
    Likes Received:
    11,048
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You mean there was a republican controlled senate? It would appear to be down right stupid of the democrats to try to remove Trump under such circumstances.
     
  3. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    7,238
    Likes Received:
    4,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    While I am not a Democrat, I understand their strategy. Politics isn’t about Truth, but what can be sold as Truth. They had confidence in getting an impeachment vote, counting on the ignorance of the voting public of what that means. I don’t believe they ever figured to get a vote from the senate to remove Trump from office, but it fit the strategy they mounted from the moment Trump entered office which was, first, to shower his administration with so many attacks, partisan investigation, and other distractions to impede Trump’s Admin from introducing changes that could be touted by the Admin as successes to American voters and, second, to sling as much mud and hate p as possible to influence elections in favor of Dem candidates. In those objectives the Dems have been somewhat successful. How successful? We will see in 2020.
    I spent 40 years as a political/management consultant and were I advising the Dems, I wouldn’t have risked going a ‘bridge too far’ with the impeachment given it wasn’t likely they’s Succeed removing Trump from office. Often, the best strategy is to propagate unanswered allegations that create doubt in voters’s mind... which is why allegations of sexual conduct work as well as they do. They’d been better off continuing with their ‘hate’ propagation (many Hate Trump, but often can’t provide anything but regurgitated mantras) and with innuendo. Then too, their timing has given the GOP the initiative for timing events leading to the election.
     
    TheImmortal likes this.
  4. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    26,997
    Likes Received:
    11,048
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The problem we have already is that judges keep trying to put new meaning into the Constitution. Now you want them to concentrate on the Preamble which is non-specific by nature. Heading down that road will result in a new interpretation of the Constitution every time the courts look at it.
     
  5. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Messages:
    11,876
    Likes Received:
    2,865
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If he should have been impeached then what’s your thoughts on the fake dossier and the previous admin weaponizing the fbi against a political opponent?
     
  6. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    42,519
    Likes Received:
    18,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't know what you mean. I find it very specific.
     
  7. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    26,997
    Likes Received:
    11,048
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
    Nearly every word there is subject to interpretation. They are at best general principles subject to interpretation.
     
  8. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    13,625
    Likes Received:
    11,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's easy. Term limits on members of Congress.
     
    Grey Matter and ArchStanton like this.
  9. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    26,997
    Likes Received:
    11,048
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I thought you would figure it out by now. I have been kidding you.
     
  10. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    21,436
    Likes Received:
    12,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It was probably 100% adequate for the era it was written in but as time and technological changes occur it like anything else requires constant changing and updating.
     
  11. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    16,389
    Likes Received:
    12,962
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course there are flaws in it. It was made by fallible human beings.

    There's only two major ones that I can think of off the top of my head.

    1: allowing money to be used for elections. I think a system should have been put in place to heavily restrict such.

    2: They made the mistake of not creating a branch to specifically investigate the federal government that is separate and independent from the other branches. With internal reviews conducted by a third party randomly chosen from amongst privately held investigative agencies. Political investigations are ruining this country.
     
  12. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    10,833
    Likes Received:
    4,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure its flawed. After we ratified the constitution we passed 10 amendments, and have passed many more amendments since then.
     
  13. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Messages:
    47,848
    Likes Received:
    19,638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Amend it.
    Good luck getting the required number of states to sign on.
     
  14. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    7,238
    Likes Received:
    4,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I do have my list of changes I would recommend, that would be be one of them.

    I have always found it amazing that many politicians enter Congress and it becomes a life long career and as the years mount, when assessing their assets, they often far exceed that which could be accumulated by the compensation they officially receive; I wonder how that occurs?

    Somewhat relevant here is a summary of the writings of William Sumner in the later half of the 1800’s.
    https://cdn.mises.org/18_4_1.pdf
    It, echoes some of the Roman Historian, Polybius, particularly his warnings regarding the entrenchment of self serving bureaucrats and warnings of the corruption stemming from the oligarchs that seek power at the expense of the population...so, think, campaign contributions, the lobbying industry, and providing golden umbrellas for politicians and high level bureaucrats.


     
    Seth Bullock likes this.
  15. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    7,238
    Likes Received:
    4,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have posted that I see the provisions for amending the consequences as on of the major strengths of the Constitution. I have my own list of adjustments I would like to see. What I take issue with are those that salt their posts with how flawed the Constitution is, how flawed the Founding Fathers were, but rarely get beyond the generalization of saying it’s flawed.
     
  16. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    10,833
    Likes Received:
    4,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, amending the constitution is one of its greatest strengths. But that strength is in our founders admitting that the constitution is flawed and needs to be updated from time to time. Neither party is following the constitution as it was originally intended, both liberals and conservatives. Only libertarians and constitutionalists are really true to the constitution.

    For example, the constitution says nothing about states being forced into the union. So the Civil War was wrong from a constitutional perspective. The constitution doesn't allow a draft, so that is unconstitutional too. It requires a congressional vote to go to war, so that is wrong. The NSA and Patriot acts are constitutional obviously. The constitution also doesn't grant the federal government a standing army. We have been granting the federal government all these powers based on loose interpretations of the constitution.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  17. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,311
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    But they don't represent population because of issues surrounding voting and the amount of representatives smaller districts get as compared to larger districts. For example a vote in California is worth less than a vote in Wyoming, despite California having 1/5 of the US's population.

    I mean I didn't realize we were restructuring the European Union's Declaration of Human Rights but I guess we are.

    Literally the right to have a trial is in the Bill of Rights.
     
  18. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,361
    Likes Received:
    11,141
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Check out Mark Levin's book The Liberty Amendments. It offers a good general idea of much of what is being thought about. IMO some of the best -- though less than perfect IMHO -- of his 11 amendment ideas are:
    • Term limits for Congress.
    • Term limits for Supreme Court Justices.
    • Time limited override of Supreme Court rulings by 3/5 vote of either Congress or the State Legislatures.
    • Time limited direct Constitution amendments accomplished by 2/3 of state legislatures without the need for a Convention.
    • Time limited override of federal statutes by 3/5 of state legislatures.
    • With some constraints and boundaries, override of federal regulations by 3/5 of the state legislatures.
    • Restoring the Senate to its original status, i.e. repeal of the 17th amendment.
    Though if there is a Convention of the States they will propose whatever amendments they want. It takes 2/3 (34) of the state legislatures to call for a Convention. At recent count 15 passed, 8 passed in one chamber, and 13 are in active debate. Any amendments they come up with will still require approval of 3/4 of the states.
     
  19. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,361
    Likes Received:
    11,141
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I fully agree with that sentiment. One difficulty however: the preamble is not part of the Constitution.
     
  20. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,361
    Likes Received:
    11,141
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, and if there ever was such a thing you might be correct that the framers wouldn't have liked it.
     
  21. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dictatorship? Now that's funny.
     
  22. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,361
    Likes Received:
    11,141
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And how do you propose we get Justices on the Supreme Court? Or is you emphasis on "attorneys," not "appoint?" (BTW, presidents nominate, not appoint.)
     
  23. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Messages:
    47,848
    Likes Received:
    19,638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    These already exist - 2 years for the house, 6 years for the Senate.
     
  24. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,180
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Just the Preamble?

    You can argue that the Preamble is not really a part of the Constitution. It's a "Mission Statement", the general goal, an ideal we should strive toward, but not really any specific law.
     
    An Taibhse likes this.
  25. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,180
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The Constitution doesn't require that a Supreme Court Justice have any sort of education
     

Share This Page