How do you feel about property tax?

Some people feel like we don't actually own our land because if we don't pay the taxes on it, we don't get to keep it, and that is not meaningfully different from rent.

I am one of these people.

This isn't a question of whether property taxes are too high or too low. Its about whether you actually own something that can legally be taken from you.

This also isn't a question about whether the programs and services that property tax pays for justify it. Those programs and services could be paid for by other means, like sales tax, income tax, luxury tax or even billed directly to the user if chose to do it a different way.

This is only a question of whether you think property taxes undermine the concept of private property or not.

 

I don't own land, so I don't know, but I think the land taxes go to fund services that are offered by the town. Like access to the municipal water supply and such.

 

Have police where you're from?
Have fire departments there?
Garbage pickup?
Sewage?
Roads?
Street lights?
Schools?
Hospitals?

That's what you're paying for. Pretty sure you won't find any of these things in the Gobi, Afghanistan, Antarctic. Perhaps relocation is in order?

 

Did you read what you quoted?

"This also isn't a question about whether the programs and services that property tax pays for justify it. Those programs and services could be paid for by other means, like sales tax, income tax, luxury tax or even billed directly to the user if chose to do it a different way."

 

Did you read the OP?

"This also isn't a question about whether the programs and services that property tax pays for justify it. Those programs and services could be paid for by other means, like sales tax, income tax, luxury tax or even billed directly to the user if chose to do it a different way.

 

We also pay for these services separately. Property taxes in Texas go to the general fund and part of them are for local schools. My home will be paid for in 5 years. If I don't continue paying thousands per year to the state, they take my home. Do I ever really own property? My kids are finished with public schools.

 

Oh, but it's all connected. Don't you see? In a way, property taxes DO interfere with private property rights. But, it's not only the local government who is responsible but the neighbors who voted in a government that demands high taxes to keep only a certain elite element inhabiting the township.

 

I don't have a problem paying property tax if it is reasonable. Story: in 1979 my dad retired in NJ, he had a pension of $18k a year, his property taxes for a modest house at that time were $6500 he was pretty much forced to relocate to Florida, the similar story was told time and again in his retirement community by people from NJ and NY all forced out of their homes in retirement. That same house today has a property tax of $28,000 a year. Insane, it is a nice house but here in Colorado that house would have a property tax in 2020 of about $4000.

Property taxes are supposed to be used to support law enforcement, fire protection and essential government services, but some areas, such as NJ the unions, the mob, corrupt politicians raid that fund for themselves, and drive the taxes up year after year to the point of absurdity.

I was originally going to be a cop in NJ, had I done that today (actually years ago) I would be retired on about a $90,000+ year pension along with thousands of others, and the poor sap taxpayers would be paying that. Believe me I wouldn't turn it down mind you, but I think it is crazy.

 

Had someone from overseas say we don't own our own land. In his country there were no property taxes. What should be done is once someone is retired the property taxes should be frozen. Too many people get reassessed then have to sell because they are on a fixed income.

 

Agreed. Some folks who view themselves as a bigger part of the power structure are eager to use that power structure to emplace more control over those they view as their subjects. I've no doubt those people are happy to pay higher property taxes if it means everyone else is that much more under their percieved (real or not) control.

 

I've paid property taxes for many years, in several different states, and, yes, they are necessary for the construction and maintenance of all infrastructure that ALL of us use all the time.

What I object to is the fact that the public school systems always suck up at least 70% of all the money paid as property taxes (or more) -- whether the owner of the property has EVER had ANY children or not! That is such totally unfair bullshit! The only people who should be paying school taxes are people who have (or have ever had) students in their own households actually enrolled in public schools!

The result? The teachers' unions and school bureaucrats are living large and living well -- but the streets are full of cracks and potholes, and the concrete in the sidewalks is falling apart. The bridges are crumbling, and it just gets worse all the time. But, OH, these well-paid 'babysitters' in the schools are very happy, because we lavish nearly all the property tax money on THEM!

We all use the streets, the bridges, the roadways, and all the other infrastructure items in our cities and towns -- BUT -- only people who send their own kids to public schools should have to pay for PUBLIC SCHOOLS!

 

I pay property tax to pay for others kids public education.

 

we all benefit from an educated public too

 

There aren't any benefits that i can tell.

 

I realize that it may be different in different states, but in my state, if you don't pay your property taxes, they don't take your home. Instead, they simply put a lien against it. (There may also be some sort of monetary penalties; I don't know.) Whenever the property gets sold, the unpaid taxes get paid through the proceeds of the sale.

But then you could argue that sales taxes were an infringement on commerce; that is, an agreement between a buyer and seller that should not be the government's business. You could argue that income taxes were wrong because the person earned that income, not the government.

There could be an argument against almost ANY kind of taxation.

No, I don't. Through a representative form of government, we choose to be taxed for services like police, fire, jails, courts, roads, and schools. As you listed, there is more than one way to do that. In most places, property taxes are the choice for funding local services. Ultimately, it is we, the people, who made that choice. That doesn't mean everyone agrees with that choice, but that is the choice that was made through our democratically elected representative form of government.

Even though I am required to pay property taxes by this choice that we have collectively made, I am, for all intents and purposes, in control of my property. I may choose who lives on it. I may choose to exclude anyone from my property. There are criminal laws like Criminal Trespass that validate my exclusive rights to this property. Even the Constitution protects my property rights, requiring the government to obtain a warrant based upon probable cause before it may be searched.

So no, I don't see property taxes as a form of "rent" or infringement on my rights to my own property. I see property rights and taxation of property as two separate topics. The only way that "property" and "taxation" have anything to do with each other is because of a choice we made through our democratic-representative system. We wanted to fund these services somehow, and property taxes were the way we chose to do it.

 

I've paid it for decades and I'm not bothered.

I do think the disparity between house A and B can be overly dramatic, and should be more level but overall I see it as a practical approach to funding the municipality expenses.

 

I agree... and it's a crying shame that with all the money we continue to pour down the rat-hole of "public education" we don't have any more to SHOW for the expense.

Ever look at your own local situation in your city? What kind of shape are your bridges, streets, roads, and other infrastructure in? Now -- What percentage of YOUR property tax money goes directly to a public school district? And these teahers' unions NEVER get enough -- sucking up money like an industrial vacuum cleaner....

 

My state of MS has a balanced budget each year constitutionally (maybe not this year, who knows), we don't go in for a lot of government frills, although we have our share of thieves who plot evil, try to steal from the treasury, and some do.

Still the state needs a certain amount of revenue to carry on, minimistically, wisely. I cannot single out property tax and force it to stand alone, but then again, I don't live in Taxachusetts.

So we have income tax (low), sales tax (medium), and property tax (low). imo the legislature has achieved a very good balance on taxation with everyone taking a bit of a goring except the permanent non-working class (whose benefits also should be taxed and reduced by taxation in a perfect world, just like everybody else; they're not better than everybody else).

I am happy with my state, and very loyal to the great state of Mississippi.

 

Just out of curiosity, how much of your property taxes go directly to a school district? In both Texas and Colorado it is more than 65%.

And, here in Colorado, our streets, bridges, and other municipal infrastructure are crumbling, decayed, and neglected, but the teachers' unions get good raises every time they all organize to bitch and bellyache about how badly they're paid ( ), when actually, for a bunch of glorified, do-little 'babysitters', they're compensated VERY well.

 

I didn't know and had to pull the file. For my location the schools get 45.8%, the county and cities within the county share the rest, the state gets none.

Isn't pot going to make Colorado a paradise with all the new revenue?

Yeah, I know, that's what they always say to get the new laws passed, and then it's worse than before.

 

A bit disingenuous on your part. Mississippi takes a higher percentage per person from Federal programs than almost any other state. You have low taxes because the rest of the country pays for your infrastructure.

 

The rest of the country helps keep the poor folk alive in the Delta.

 

Absolutely property taxes undermine the concept of private property. Are you interested in debating the pros and cons of this?

 

sure

 

I'm not sure for one thing that without property tax that there would eventually not become a time when it would be impossible for someone without property to ever have any hope of owning property. A bizarre concept to be sure, when the fundamental point is that property isn't actually owned. But, having a place that's paid for with only a property tax obligation is about the most affordable place one can live and it is also pretty much as close as it gets to being yours. Aside from stuff that a lot of urban and suburban folks have to deal with, like the dreaded home owners association rules and regulations, etc....

Ah the cons, not being able to relax in owning a piece of the earth all my own - but then again, when has that ever been a sure thing? Especially for the so called common man.

ugh, blah blah blah, I really don't know. I'd be super happy if I didn't have to pay property tax.... Glad I don't have to pay an assessment on personal property. Oh, you own a Gibson Les Paul? That'll be $100/year, etc...