So, You Don't Believe In Noah's Ark? Guess Again!

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Jeannette, May 20, 2020.

  1. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    No, just because something is old does not make it "real".

    And people standing around looking at something doesn't make it "real" either...
     
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  2. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's simply the old word 'indoctrination'. I was once a Christian preacher but I looked behind the Bible at the background, culture, history on which it was written. I am now an atheist. Christians have said to me 'but Jesus said it. He was God's son so it must be right'. Well I believe that Jesus existed simply as a Jewish 'evangelist'. He saw the hypocrisy of the Religious leaders, denounced it, and died for it. I can't find any evidence that he was anything other than that. Of course Jesus believed the OT. He had been brought up in the Jewish Faith from the age of 5. From that time until 13 (Jewish adulthood) he had learned the scriptures thoroughly by daily reading, some study and help from religious teachers in the synagogue. There was nothing in those days to indicate that the OT contained many stories/allegories. It was accounted as truth. 2000 years has given us a different picture by means of science, archaeology etc. To tell the Roman Catholic Church 200 years ago that the story of Noah was just a story would have been suicide. Poor old Galileo nearly lost his life for his 'heresy' which we know today as truth.Tell Christians that all their joyful carols at Christmas proclaiming Bethlehem Ephratah as Jesus birthplace, that Josephs supposed journey was not necessary. That Mary need not have gone with him, and his journey into Egypt didn't happen.
    People just take for granted what they are told. If the Bible were brought up to date now it would be a very different Book.
     
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  3. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Noah story is simply a fairy tale that illustrates the First Commandment in action using war metaphors. The flood is the army that sweeps through all of the land, killing everything. It is replayed in the story where King Saul is directed to kill every living thing but he failed by showing mercy. That pissed the God character off to no end. Noah wasn't a warrior or a priest but more of a common man. When the God character told Noah what to do he didn't complain or whine, he just got busy and did it. Noah is the only character in the entire Bible who did exactly as he was told do without whining about it, even though he had no clue as to how he was going to do it. That is what the flood story is about.
     
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  4. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    All of the biblical stories illustrate one or more of the real Ten Commandments found in Exodus 34:11-28. The miracles are based on Exodus 34:10. The stories don't have to make logical sense because they are mnemonic devices. The listener, or reader, is supposed to be able to identify which of the Ten Commandments the story is about.
     
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  5. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    Well, as long as we all realise the bible is fiction.......
     
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  6. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Some people think that there were stenographers on hand to record all of the characters' exact words, even when the character was alone in the middle of a desert.
     
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  7. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Instead of giving the name of some geologist to give credibility to your beliefs, how about giving us his refutation so we can decide on its merits or non merits.
    [​IMG]
    Never judge a tree by its stature,
    nor the power of the name it wears.
    Judgement should only come,
    through the merits of the fruit it bears - Jeannette
     
  8. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    Words don't have to be true...I wrote some novels and stories and they're not true, they're fiction. They may contain some truth, but I don't wish people to treat them as the gospel truth. (Pun intended)
     
  9. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Guess it wasn't a big deal to discover the ark.

    Or, it wasn't discovered at all.
     
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  10. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    How about Googling it yourself; it's called research.
     
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  11. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    It pays to remember that the biblical stories were designed to teach complete obedience and complete loyalty to the Boss (the God character, the Jesus character, the king, the chief priest, the family father). The message is to obey and be loyal in all things or suffer the bad consequences. Everything else is just fluff.
     
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  12. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    Personal revelation is of total importance to the person. This has led in the past to the revelations certain persons had imposing themselves on their families, friends, clans and peoples.
    The only way "Divinity" could be known to a person is through direct experience. Everything else is hearsay, in the ultimate sense.
    Insisting upon the physical existence of metaphors is hopelessly futile; the most important message has nothing to do with the material.
     
  13. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    Obedience and loyalty to the authority imposing this mindset. It may have nothing to do with the veracity of deity.
     
  14. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I found it surprising that metal nails were being used rather than wooden ones, yet the possibility exists that the people at that time might have been way more advanced than is now presumed. Frankly, I always wondered if the first civilization at Troy which was more than a thousand years older than Priam's Troy, and which was highly advanced and buried under a layer of mud with shark bones, might have been a prediluvian civilization? Their gold jewelry was outstanding.

    There is another way of looking at the arc? It was written in the OT, which makes it a few thousand years old. So how can it be possible for someone in that day and age to know what kind of ship would be capable of withstanding the worse kind of conditions imaginable - Unless you think the OT is a modern forgery?

    Prediluvian jewelry or not?
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    All true.
     
  16. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  17. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only people who agree with Wyatt are his own people,

    Wiki. Ronald Eldon Wyatt (2 June 1933 – August 4, 1999) was an adventurer noted for advocating the Durupınar site as the site of Noah's Ark, along with almost 100 other Bible-related alleged discoveries. He has been criticized by scientists, historians, biblical scholars, as well as some creationists. For all your protestations Ron Wyatt was a fraud. Generally acknowledged by all but his own close friends. Even his denomination disassociated themselves from his obvious fraud. If you want to question the experts above that's your privilege.
     
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  18. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    Priceless
     
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  19. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The OT was started in Babylon in the 7th century- Greek, particularly, had extremely large warships. Some over 400 feet in length. They weren't as ignorant as people think.

    Mariners of those days were not ignorant of sailing or weather. Later Paul went through a terrible storm and was tossed across the Med towards Libya and then back again. If they hadn't hit a sandbank they would have beached - though the beach and storm would have wrecked the boat.
     
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  20. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It has nothing to do with obedience. God wanted to reveal to man that He consisted of Pure Love and Virtue, and the only way to enter His Realm and His Existence, is by purifying their hearts and becoming more like Him.




    Why should I? I have my own experiences to draw on, something you don't have and will never have. When you post something, instead of giving us names to impress us, how about giving us their opinions verbatim, and then let us decide on the merits or the lack thereof.

    As for my beliefs, I was an atheist in high school - so I've never been critical of them. But then again I've never know such intolerance towards the beliefs of others.

    Anyway, my spiritual journey started when I began thinking in a positive and accepting way, rather than in a negative disbelieving way - and it opened me up. I began reading Evangelical books at first, and then progressed to the lives of Catholic Saints. Once translations of Greek and Russian saints became available, I began reading them - after all I am Orthodox. So what might seem unbelievable to you, is something that is very commonplace among devout Orthodox.

    The reason I specified devout is because it is a monastic faith, and not easy to adhere to by the majority - especially during a secular era. But then again, the average person is not expected to.

     
  21. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ecced33c06daacc489c4b7cef6ca57d2.jpg ~ I need more ice cream ...
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  22. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My atheist journey began when I started thinking in a positive way.. I thought positively FOR MYSELF. I didn't need to draw on the beliefs of others. . Jesus was devout. But devotedly wrong in many cases. He believed the OT as it was written because of the teaching of others in his childhood.

    You've read the stories of the Saints - all approved by the Church. There's very little evidence for miracles, and there are millions of people in the world - religious and atheistic - that have better claim to 'saintliness' than many of your saints. Try also reading about the not-so-good members of the Church.
    You've been given some good advice - do some research for yourself. You believe everything the church wants you to. Right or wrong.

    Now I'm off to bed.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
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  23. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    If you can look up material online regarding Ron Wyatt then you can also easily find multiple credible articles that thoroughly debunk his claims. Unless of course the truth bothers you?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
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  24. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    When will you get it through your head that there is no such deity as depicted in the ancient ethnocentric Middle East Jewish religious fairy tale?
     
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  25. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're thinking of Classical and later Hellenic Greece which began about 350 years BC. The first and oldest city of Troy would have been around 3,000 years BC, and that would put it around the time of the flood. The civilization in that first city (or maybe it was the second city), was highly advanced, and that is where Schliemann found the treasure.

    Schliemann mistakenly thought at the time that it was the city of the Trojan wars, but that Troy came 1500 years later, since the Trojan wars were around 1300 BC.

    In Schliemann's biography, the author stated that above the first and highly civilized Troy, was a layer of mud with shark bones. The city that was built above it was very primitive as if civilization was starting all over again. This is when I began wondering if there really was a flood.

    I ran through the article on Troy in Wikipedia, but there was no mention of the first city being covered in mud.. I guess they assume there was a temporary rise in the water level.
     

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