What should be done about people that framed General Flynn?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 0U812USA, May 13, 2020.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    According to Flynn he was coerced - citing "WIKI" does not change this.
    According to some of the evidence released - indeed he was railroaded.

    What is he guilty of ? do tell .. especially given the level of scum bucketry on the other side of the fence.
     
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  2. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  3. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

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    With exception to systems and methods the Mueller Report, call transcripts, and testimony needs to be released to the public so we can have the facts. This cherry-picking by interested party’s nonsense needs to stop.
     
  4. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I get a "404 error" on your link.

    Can you please link to a reliable, verifiable sources for your claim?
     
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You would confess to anything as well - given sufficient coercion. Such lame commentary from one who should know better.

    Some of the evidence I have seen suggests that there was a bit of an entrapment net in play.

    You are projecting the dirty deeds done during "Russiagate" - of which there are many - violations of the Rule of Law En Masse - onto Barr.
    Violations by the FBI, CIA, and complicity by many other - shall we say - left leaning Bureaucrats.

    The whole investigation was a sham - and leading the show is Meuller - a dude with a demonstrable track record of rule of law and principle of justice violation.. a man of low integrity - combined with massive arrogance and demonstrated lack of objectivity and bias.

    Is this the best we have to offer ?
     
  6. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The crime was the lie. Are you claiming that that the FBI invented the concept of lying? Are you claiming that Flynn was the first criminal to get caught lying?

    Step by step:

    1. Flynn overstepped and should not have been calling Sergei Kislyak while Obama was still president. There are protocols for incoming administrations. The outgoing administration is still working. Such contacts need to be approved. Flynn would have known that.

    2. The FBI routinely listens in to foreign officials when they are on our shores. Flynn should have known that.

    3. When two agents came to talk to Flynn after the inauguration, in his office at the White House, he lied to them.

    4. When later confronted with his lie, and details of a lot of other things Flynn shouldn't have done (such as getting paid by the Turkish government and plotting to kidnap a Turkish journalist who had been living here so that Erdogan could get his hands on him), rather than face prosecution for the whole gamut of his shenanigans, Flynn pleaded guilty to the lie about having numerous contacts with Kislyak. It was the lesser of several charges. His lawyer was with him for all of this other than the initial interview.

    5. The worst charges against Flynn were dropped with the agreement that he would cooperate with the FBI and the Mueller investigation. He was only charged with the lie about Kislyak contacts.

    6. When it was time to face sentencing, Flynn balked and tried to back out of the deal. He hired a new lawyer (I forget her name ... she was a Fox News regular). It would seem that after seeing the sentences handed down to Cohen and Manafort, he sissied out on going to jail, and decided instead (or his lawyer and one of Donald's decided?) that he should instead not cooperate with the investigation, hoping his buddy Donald would issue a pardon if he kept his mouth shut.

    The FBI did not create a new crime here. You are quite wrong about that, sorry.
     
  7. Facts-602

    Facts-602 Banned

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    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  8. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    See #256.
     
  9. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First of all, the National Review is very right wing, so there is some spin in that article, but ...

    "New documents released Wednesday in the Flynn case show that at least one FBI official — widely judged to be the FBI’s former head of counterintelligence Bill Priestap — questioned the basis of the Flynn interview that led to his guilty plea." One guy.

    See #256.
     
  10. Facts-602

    Facts-602 Banned

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    Yeah, the first link isn’t for National Review. How right wing is Yahoo news? Just stop.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  11. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Today Adam Schiff is calling on our Intel. community to release and publish the phone calls between Flynn and Russian ambassador Kislyak ,which Flynn lied about!!!
     
  12. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    The FBI fabricated the entire scenario.

    They created the hoax. They created the sense of hysteria and persecution. They put their mark in a vulnerable position.

    These are all elements of their fabrication of a crime.
     
  13. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    That Schiff hasn't been expelled is shocking.
     
  14. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    The truth always hurts!!
     
  15. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    Flynn and his attorneys asked for that months ago....Sullivan said yes, and then the Mueller team said that all the relevant parts where in the Mueller Report and already public.

    Glad Shifty finally jumped ship and joined Flynn side....however it maybe to late for him given all of his lies that have been exposed.
     
  16. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What hysteria? What persecution? And since when is the office of the National Security director in the White House a "vulnerable position"?

    Why are you working so hard to make Flynn the victim? Flynn was a General, ffs. Surely he is capable of looking after himself. He knows the laws, he knows not to lie to the FBI, but he willfully did it anyway? Why do you need the FBI to be the bad guys in this?
     
  17. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Flynn spoke to Kislyak on the phone. The conversation was taped. During his conversation he advised Russia not to react to US sanctions on Russia and to oppose US policy on Israeli settlements. The FBI interviewed him with respect to his conversations with Kislyak.
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/why-flynn-interview-was-predicated

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/flynn-redux-what-those-fbi-documents-really-show
    Flynn lied to the FBI about the conversation. He confessed to lying............because he lied. He enetered a guilty plea in which he acknowledged lying and accepted responsibility for it.

    Billy the Bagman's attempt to obfuscate those facts is a shameful disregard for the rule of law.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fruit of the Poisoned Tree.
     
  19. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    "What hysteria? What persecution?"

    You might have noticed that I'm not interested in one-finger tapping out long posts. If it's really true that you don't know, go read up on it. Or, at least, watch this:



    "And since when is the office of the National Security director in the White House a "vulnerable position"?"

    The FBI wasn't out to get the office. They were after Flynn.

    "Why are you working so hard to make Flynn the victim? Flynn was a General, ffs. Surely he is capable of looking after himself. He knows the laws, he knows not to lie to the FBI, but he willfully did it anyway? Why do you need the FBI to be the bad guys in this?"


    Why are you working so hard to defend corrupt government officials?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  20. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What corrupt government officials? Horse pucky. Again I ask, why do you seemingly need Flynn to be the good guy here?

    They were "after" Flynn because they had recordings of him discussing recent new sanctions with Ambassador Kislyak. He lied about it, and they had him caught in that lie. He pleaded guilty to avoid greater, more serious charges. End. Of. Story.
     
  21. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    https://www.emptywheel.net/2020/05/...ynns-materially-conflicting-sworn-statements/

    December 1, 2017: Mike Flynn pled guilty before Judge Rudolph Contreras to lying in a January 24, 2017 FBI interview. In his plea allocution, Flynn admitted:
    • He lied about several conversations with Sergey Kislyak about sanctions
    • He lied about several conversations with Kislyak about an attempt to undermine an Obama effort at the UN
    • He lied about whether his company knew that it was working for the government of Turkey and about whether senior officials from Turkey were overseeing that contract
    • He was satisfied with the services his attorneys had provided
    • No other threats or promises were made to him except what was in the plea agreement

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/michael-flynn-plea-agreement-documents

    December 18, 2018: Mike Flynn reallocuted his guilty plea before Judge Emmet Sullivan to lying in a January 24, 2017 FBI interview. In his plea allocution, Flynn admitted:
    • He lied about several conversations with Sergey Kislyak about sanctions
    • He lied about several conversations with Kislyak about an attempt to undermine an Obama effort at the UN
    • He lied about whether his company knew that it was working for the government of Turkey and about whether senior officials from Turkey were overseeing that contract
    • He was satisfied with the services his attorneys had provided
    • He did not want a Curcio counsel appointed to give him a second opinion on pleading guilty
    • He did not want to challenge the circumstances of his January 24, 2017 interview and understood by pleading guilty he was giving up his right to do so permanently
    • He did not want to withdraw his plea having learned that Peter Strzok and others were investigated for misconduct
    • During his interview with the FBI, he was aware that lying to the FBI was a federal crime
    https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/121818am-USA-v-Michael-Flynn-Sentencing.pdf

    June 26, 2018: Mike Flynn testified to an EDVA grand jury, among other things, that:
    • “From the beginning,” his 2016 consulting project “was always on behalf of elements within the Turkish government,”
    • He and Bijan Kian would “always talk about Gulen as sort of a sharp point” in relations between Turkey and the US as part of the project (though there was some discussion about business climate)
    • “For the most part” “all of that work product [was] about Gulen”
    • When asked if he knew of any work product that didn’t relate to Gulen, Flynn answered, “I don’t think there was anything that we had done that had anything to do with, you know, anything else like business climates or stuff like that”
    • He was not aware of “any work done on researching the state of the business climate in Turkey”
    • He was not aware of “any meetings held with U.S. businesses or business associations”
    • He was not aware of “any work done regarding business opportunities and investment in Turkey”
    • He and his partner “didn’t have any conversations about” a November 8, 2016 op-ed published under his name until “Bijan [] sent me a draft of it a couple of days prior, maybe about a week prior”
    https://static.politico.com/20/a8/a9f949c04d4daae653621f4f0dea/flynnsentencingmemo.pdfJanuary 29, 2020: Mike Flynn submitted a sworn declaration. Among the assertions he made were:

    On December 1, 2017 (reiterated on December 18, 2018), I pled guilty to lying to agents of the FBI. I am innocent of this crime.”

      • “I still don’t remember if I discussed sanctions on a phone call with Ambassador Kislyak nor do I remember if we discussed the details of a UN vote on Israel.”
        “I gave [Covington] the information they requested and answered their questions truthfully.”
      • “My relationship with Covington disintegrated soon thereafter.” [After second proffer session.]
      • “I did not believe I had lied in my White House interview with the FBI agents.”
      • “In the preceding months leading up to this moment [when he agreed to the plea deal], I had read articles and heard rumors that the agents did not believe that I had lied.”
      • “It was well after I pled guilty on December 1, 2017, that I heard or read that the agents had stated that they did not believe that I had lied during the January 24, 2017, White House interview.”
      • “I agreed to plead guilty that next day, December 1, 2017, because of the intense pressure from the Special Counsel’s Office, which included a threat to indict my son, Michael, and the lack of crucial information from my counsel.”
      • “My former lawyers from Covington also assured me on November 30, 2017, that if I accepted the plea, my son Michael would be left in peace.”
      • “Regretfully I followed my lawyers’ strong advice to confirm my plea even though it was all I could do to not cry out ‘no’ when this Court asked me if I was guilty.”
      • “In truth, I never lied.”
    Three comments about this. First, Flynn has suggested — and his supporters have focused on — that prosecutors promised that Jr wouldn’t be prosecuted. Flynn’s declaration actually stops short of saying prosecutors made this promise.

    Second, note that Flynn’s sworn statement conflicts with statements he made to the FBI after his January 24, 2017 interview. For example, his claim not to remember his calls with Kislyak conflicts with 302s cited in the Mueller Report that describe what went on in the calls (though the report cites heavily, though not exclusively, to the one from November 17, 2017, which is the one in which Flynn claims he just repeated what Covington told him to say).

    Finally, while Flynn didn’t back off his admission he lied in his FARA filing specifically in his declaration, he does claim that he answered Covington’s answers about his work for Turkey truthfully. In notes that Flynn himself already made public, however, it’s clear he did not, for example where he told his attorneys that the op-ed he published on election day was done for the campaign’s benefit, not Turkey’s.

    [​IMG]

    And his attorneys made much of the fact that he claimed the project started off as being about business climate, which conflicts with his claim that the project was always about Gulen.

    [​IMG]

    DOJ has 600 more pages from Covington (500 pages of evidence and 100 pages of declarations from its lawyers) disputing the claims Flynn has made about him. The timing of DOJ’s motion to dismiss strongly suggests Flynn’s boosters knew they had to act before that Covington material became public. But even without that, Flynn has already provided evidence that Flynn lies to his attorneys resulted in a false FARA filing.
     
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  22. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why do you seemingly need Flynn to be the bad guy?

    Obviously corrupt, government officials created a situation in hopes of getting him to squirm. They manoeuvred him into making his statements to the agents.

    Political persecutions are the stuff of third world, bananna republics. Those tactics should have no place here.
     
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  23. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Who fired Flynn for lying? How about impeaching that prez.
     
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  24. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Excellent details, but I strongly suspect that there are far too many facts in your post for many Trump supporters. You probably lost them halfway through the first bullet list.

    It may help, for those who make it that far into you post, yo know who Gulen is:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fethullah_Gülen

    By far one of Flynn's worst offenses, and likely the one that would get him the most jail time if he hadn't copped a plea, was his enthusiastic involvement in the plot to kidnap Gulen from his home in Pennsylvania and deliver him to Recip Erdogan. What's the penalty for kidnapping these days? I believe it is life without parole in most states.

    Your politico link gets me a 404 Not Found error.
     
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  25. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't need Flynn to be a bad guy, he IS a bad guy. Another user with even better research skills than mine spelled ot all out for you in comment #271.

    As for political persecutions and procesutions ... Trump's pet AG is currently going after people whose only crime is disagreeing with Trump, and even Barr had to drop the investigations of Obama and Biden re: the Russia probe. Thousands of current and former federal judges and prosecutors are calling for Barr to resign, especially over his blatant attempt to please his overlord on the Flynn case. You want travesty? Banana Republic tactics? You got 'em right now.
     
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