To those of you who are wearing masks in public.

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by btthegreat, May 19, 2020.

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  1. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Those numbers are severely inflated, as many people who happened to die WITH the covid-19 virus inside their system are being counted as dying OF covid-19. Much better for government funding and fear mongering, you see...
     
  2. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Once again, @gfm7175 is unable to recognize some fairly basic science. The virus itself my be smaller than the pores of a mask, but the virus does not travel by itself - it does not get aerosolized. It almost always travels as part of the larger water droplets that come from a cough or sneeze or skin cells and those are larger than the pores of most masks. If a mask stop 90% of the particulates leaving your mouth, then the chance than the 10% which does successfully penetrate will leave in a large enough load to actually create an infection in another person is dramatically reduced.

    It is wholly irrelevant to the reasoning behind masks to claim that wearing masks do not stop the virus. They are designed to significantly reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus.

    They do.

    And the real fearmongering here lies with the person who tries to yell that masks and social distancing do not work while the real medical and infectious disease experts, the people who study this everyday, continue to espouse these methods for operating safely.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
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  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I addressed your concern about attitude in my post. You needed to read the next sentence!!

    Every day there are choices in life that are morally superior to some degree. That's just a fact.

    The only real question is whether the individual considers that.
     
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  4. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Good points.

    I predict this entire "mask wearing thingy" is going to come to an end very soon.

    We live in a truly nutty time where the "experts" contradict themselves and exaggerate
    as they pontificate their "expertise" to the information-hungry public who gobbles it up
    and then regurgitates it here inside Thread World.

    I would NOT be at all surprised or shocked if soon the "experts" announce that
    they have concluded that wearing masks actually spreads the COVID-19 virus
    and so please "STOP wearing those dangerous masks."

    Only God knows what the "experts" are going to announce as gospel truth
    in the days ahead.

    This bears repeating:

    "If the world does not soon re-open the world economy
    then the world is going to be locked down in a severe
    sustained Global Economic Depression that will be
    worse, in terms of human deaths, than the COVID-19
    virus."___JAG
     
  5. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Nope, you are the one denying basic science, as well as basic mathematics. The virus gets aerosolized. It can remain in the air on its own for hours. A mask will not stop that.

    Appeal to Purity Fallacy.
    Bulverism Fallacy.
    False Authority Fallacy.

    How is telling people NOT to fear monger "fear mongering"??
     
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    A false sense of security comes when there is a difference in ones assessment of what the mask can accomplish.

    The false sense comes from the individual being uninformed - understandable, given that little is said about the reasons or effectiveness of masks.

    Masks are a method of reducing (not eliminating) risk. The method becomes more effective as everyone uses them.
     
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  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You aren't reprsenting science about masks here.

    Studies show that viruses are being carried by droplets that are emitted when people breath, cough, sneeze, talk, etc. Those droplets fall out over time based on factors such as air moisture and droplet size.

    Wearing a mask is shown to reduce people being exposed to a level that allows for disease by reducing the droplets spewed by individuals and to a lesser extent by reducing what we breathe.

    Hospital staff, who can be expected to understand the science, wear masks as an element of their protection.
     
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  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The moral aspect of it is that science has shown that masks reduce the amount of droplet carrying viruses in the air that others could potentially breathe.

    Refusing to wear a mask puts others at greater risk.

    And, I don't understand your argument about the fact that other viruses travel this way. We're having a pandemic here. That's what we're fighting - or surrendering to, in your case I guess.
     
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  9. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    @gfm7175 once again believes that he can yell fearmongering and list off logical fallacies in the face of making an actual argument. In the end, his failure to find a single reputable expert that agrees with his points or to even back up the allegation that the virus get aerosolized and doesn't get carried almost exclusively through water droplets and other particulates which are larger than masks demonstrates that he is unable to validate his argument.

    The true fearmongerer is the person yelling that masks and social distancing do nothing to stop the virus.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes - using a mask entails more than just putting it on. The CDC says you need to treat your mask as contaminated and must be replaced or washed after any use. Wash hands after touching it.

    And, break/lunch rooms at work are a real issue. There have been CDC/OSHA orders on this - though Trump has issues at least one executive order saying that employers are exempted from all legal issues related to ignoring these safety measures.

    The largest purpose with masks is to protect others. So, mask care is more about the wearer and I doubt it defeats this major purpose.
     
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  11. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you can explain these figures and compare to countries where mask wearing is not compulsory?:

    Venezuela 10 deaths 0.4/m
    Vietnam 0 deaths 0/m
    Czech 306 deaths 29/m
    Slovakia 28 deaths 5/m
    Bosnia 140 deaths 40/m
    Colombia 630 deaths 12/m
    UAE 237 deaths 24/m
    Cuba 80 deaths 7/m

    Japan 771 deaths 6/m
    South Korea 264 deaths 5/m
     
  12. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    1. A mask reduces risk. Which bit don't you understand?
    2. So you think that viruses are lining up to pass through the pores? You clearly think that viruses have intelligence
    3. Virus on fingers is no threat unless you take off your mask and stick your fingers into your mouth. And how did the virus get onto fingers if everyone is wearing a mask?
    4. Virus load is too low in normal breathing if everyone wears a mask
     
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  13. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    So those total excess deaths are made up ?
     
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  14. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    So you’re saying we don’t have enough masks?

    you’re right

    Had an altercation in Lowe’s today. Hasidic gentleman had his mask around his neck. I asked him politely to affix his mask properly. It got a little heated but at one point I told him that him wearing a mask protects my wife.

    His reply was “ I don’t care”

    manager through his ass out
     
  15. tealwings

    tealwings Well-Known Member

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    that’s crazy. My mom is in an assisted living facility and they are so careful. No resident is allowed in the normal gathering areas. They can walk outside with mask of course and get their mail. All meals are brought to their apts and they do temp checks daily. So great full my mom is there, but as our state is slowly opening up I worry will seniors ever be able to have a sort of normalcy again. They are already so limited. going to the store, church or to my house was my moms “fun”. Funny how that bothered me because of her inability to travel like she use to. Now it’s even worse.
     
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  16. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    They don't wash their friggin hands???

    You go to the wrong restaurants
     
  17. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I'm not so sure it's down to education or intelligence. I keep harping on this, but I'm seeing so many smart and educated people (both here, and abroad) who think lockdowns and masks etc are ridiculous.

    I do think our responses are emotional, primarily.
     
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  18. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, cause America is the only nation with a pandemic. It's all about your election.
     
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  19. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    No just saying only what I said in the post you quoted.

    That's fascinating stuff to be sure.

    Based on this thread it looks like we might have another
    Civil War with regard to mask-wearing or not mask wearing.
    Well, if not a Civil War, then at least some hostility that might
    erupt in law-breaking?

    The point has been made, in this thread, several times that
    people who refuse to wear masks are immoral. This is always
    Big Step Number One toward violence against the "immoral
    ones" who fail to meet the other's moral expectations.

    Thoughts For Today:

    (1) The COVID-19 virus "experts" say crazy things.
    Remember that Anthony Fauci who is the top
    man on this virus -- he told Americans that
    we should NOT EVER AGAIN SHAKE HANDS
    with each other. Is he right about that? If wrong,
    then one wonders what other things he is wrong
    about?

    (2) I predict that that the American public is going to
    very soon collectively refuse to continue to wear
    masks --- the "experts" are saying this COVID-19
    virus can be around for the next 2 years or longer.

    And that it can mutate and become even deadlier
    than its present form. That it WILL BE BACK!

    Are Americans going to continue to wear masks
    when they go out in public for the next 2 years?

    Or the next 3 years?

    _________

    I guess the passing of Time will tell us how it will pan out . . .

    `
     
  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    That's like saying people who wear seat belts wriggle more, so lets stop wearing seat belts.
     
  21. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yes, just like the Japanese have ALWAYS done.

    Masks are here to stay, make peace with it. If the toughest people on earth can do it, so can you.

    Alternatively, move away from people altogether and do what you like. Go live in the deep country, where you'll only need to put that scary mask on once a month when you run in to town to stock up on beer and Twinkies.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
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  22. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    You mean they actually made sacrifices to fight a common enemy? Prepared to do whatever was necessary to bring down the foe?
     
  23. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Russian trolls love the idea of an American Civil War ...over pretty much anything
     
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Some people not following protocols to the letter, is not a reason for not following protocols generally.
     
  25. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Exactly the same things those people would do either way.

    They're not adding new problematic behaviours, they're just doing what they always do. But you do make a good point, in that when folk are so determined not to make an effort, it's a good thing they're wearing masks! Will limit how much their recklessness impacts others.
     

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