So, You Don't Believe In Noah's Ark? Guess Again!

Since you mentioned the different Crosses, here's a few historical tidbits.

The Red Cross on a white background is the Cross of Saint George and was used by the Genovese ships in the Middle Ages. They gave the English permission to use it as protection from the Turks, and this is why it's on their flag. The White Cross on the British flag is the Cross of Saint Andrew which represents Scotland.

The Confederacy must have had quite a few Scotch, otherwise why would they choose the Cross of Saint Andrew for their flag? When the break away republics in Ukraine used the Cross of Saint Andrew on their own flag, Americans not knowing the Apostle that the flag represented, thought they were copying the Confederate flag.

As for Saint George, he's respected highly by the Turks even though they are Muslims. I personally think it stems from fear going back to the Crusades, since he was invoked quite often by the Christian armies. But that's my opinion. What I do know is that the Turks never destroyed Churches dedicated to Saint George in the Near East, and today hundreds of thousands of Turks attend his shrine asking for favors on his holy day. Muslims in Israel also attend his shrine in Lod.

 

Human beings weren't flawed until Adam and Eve decided to become 'gods' in their own right by disobeying Him.

You said if a company makes a product that doesn't work would they keep on making it. No they wouldn't, they would try to perfect it by eliminating the imperfect elements. But isn't that what happens to people through wars, famines and natural disasters?

This doesn't mean I attribute disasters to God. God being a Pure Creative Force cannot really negate from His own creation, so any calamity therefore has to be the natural consequence of what happens to people when they turn away from God and from the Love that binds everything and everyone.

 

Your omnipotent "creator" used ENTRAPMENT on Adam and Eve because he would have KNOWN BEFOREHAND that they would not have the ability to resist.

That NULLIFIES the entire concept of "sin"!

 

Does anyone still believe in Adam and Eve? In simple terms 'Sin' only came into the world when ancient man began to realise the results of human nature and what was 'good' for man and 'bad' for man.
The serpent is a symbol in many religions. In some it is evil - in others, it is a god.

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
FoxHastings said: ↑
Oh my goodness! sounds like he just can't create a decent product....why does he keep making flawed products?

It may be theologically accurate but certainly not logically accurate...

Yes, humans were created FLAWED no matter who or what created them.

"God" keeps making them flawed despite getting the same results....that sounds pretty stupid and illogical to me...

That old, trite, tired illogical excuse of "he gave them free will" does NOT excuse him from the fact he made flawed creatures and then expected them to be perfect.

Did he have a POINT ???

If a company makes a product that doesn't work do they just keep making it? Let it fix itself? NO, they research what is wrong and FIX IT.

So Eve and Adam were FLAWED.

WHAT! You think only the flawed people are killed in wars, famines, and natural disasters ! WHAT !!??

So you are saying "god" did NOT create the earth and everything in it... good for you

Did he tell you he was or was it just you who decided what god is?

So when a baby is born deformed or suffers dies in a tornado or from a disease it's because it turned away from god ?
Wow, that's NASTY.


NOW prove that those who love god have NO harm or suffering or disease and have NEVER been killed in wars or natural disasters.

That last phrase is sooo Disneyesque...and meaningless.

 

God would have known of course since he knew their weakness', but it doesn't mean it's an entrapment since the decision to disobey was made by Adam and Eve.

As for sin, I think a more correct term would be a personality limitation or weakness.

 

Adam and Eve might have been the first humans who developed a sense of reasoning and conscience. I know at the age of two children start forming their thoughts into sentences.

 

Why make Adam and Eve in the first place if he knew they were going to fail? Like most of the OT early stories they are simply adapted from earlier religions and myths.

 

YES!!!! Those who think making babies suffer for no GOOD reason are crueler !!!!!

What a sick cruel unnecessary waste of humans !!!

Oh, I understand what you've written, I just refuted it and showed it to be ridiculous ….and do not threaten me...

I see cherry picking a post helps you to avoid the difficult questions.

 

Christianity was built on belief in what the Church told you. They died because they believed in fairy stories written in the Bible. You can't die for something you don't know about. That's the same reason Muslims are killing others, and themselves. Because of what Mohammed and todays Imams are preaching. Jesus was just a Jewish 'evangelist'. Had the early disciple not have made him divine Christianity would not exist and all those 'martyrs' need never have died.

It's for the benefit of the souls who love them. Are there any people crueler than those who have never suffered?

That's the sickest comment I've heard so far.

 

Oh, so telling you to be careful because your eternal soul is at stake, is now a threat? Unbelievable? But then again I forgot, you are now the decisive factor in what is and what shouldn't be - and therefore a god. Wow! Just like Caligula.

​

Take that you fools of misery.
For we the gods of lofty see,

are watching you from our great height
and snicker at the motley sight
of lesser beings, not as bright

as us - Jeannette

​

 

And where did the Church Fathers get their belief, since there wasn't any Church before them?

The Christians would not have suffered and be willing to die for a God if they did not know Him. Part of being a Christian is knowing God, and it happens when one acquires the Holy Spirit within them.

​

Islam started as a Christian heresy. I believe they were an off shoot of Arianism; a teaching of Christianity that was found to be heretical at the First Ecumenical Council. It eventually evolved into a political and a nationalist entity and like all political supremacists, the Muslims have no qualms about killing others.

Where as martyrdom in Christianity is the giving of one's life for God and for the benefit of humanity, in Islam, martyrdom is to kill others so Islam can triumph as a political entity.

Are you saying it was a lovey dovey world before Christianity, and the Semites weren't really throwing their first born into the fire to please and pacify the (demon) gods when under attack, and the Greeks weren't entombing their daughters into bridges so the bridge wouldn't fall, and Spartan mothers weren't telling their sons to come back with their shields or on them, etc., etc.

It was the Apostle and the Saints who came after them, that Christianized Europe, and the fact that it is still imperfect, and that there are still wars should give you an idea of how barbaric Europe must have been before the advent and martyrdom of the Saints.

 

I seem to remember there was a Church in Jerusalem and Paul himself help found many churches.

Many religions had people who were willing to die for their god. Read ancient history.

Mohammed took his One God from the Jews "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one" שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה אֶחָֽד׃). He was educated enough to be able to read the Torah in his travels trading. He supposedly had visions/conversations with heavenly beings which enlightened him, and so we have an adapted version of the Torah. Many religions, particularly modern, start with 'visions' given to people Paul was no exception. Thus we have Christianity - Pauline style. He used and adapted the OT and Greek philosophy to convert the Greeks. Judaism is a mixture of earlier beliefs.

It never has been a lovey, dovey world and neither has the 'Christian' world. They just used torture, burning, drowning of 'infidels' 'witches' old women and the simple minded who couldn't defend themselves - all in the name of the Christian god.

Its still happening today. Mykhailo Cherenkov - 'Orthodox Terrorism' is interesting.

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
YES!!!! Those who think making babies suffer for no GOOD reason are crueler !!!!!

Oh, I understand what you've written, I just refuted it and showed it to be ridiculous ….and do not threaten me...

I see cherry picking a post helps you to avoid the difficult questions.

I see cherry picking a post helps you to avoid the difficult questions/comments....as USUAL

 

Hmmm, interesting. Isn't that precisely what it is that you are doing?

Isn't your faith reinforced by the Holy Ghost? That voice in your head?

 

All the original Patriarchate/Bishoprics were found by some Apostle, and every bishop since in the Orthodox Churches and the schismatic Latin, Coptic and Armenian Churches has apostolic succession. Not the Protestants though.

Mohamed's travels would have carried him into the neighboring Byzantine Empire, so his contacts would have been as much with Christians as with Jews. His first converts might have been Arians since they were deemed heretics in the First Ecumenical Council. In Spain where Islam took root, they were mostly Arians. The King of Jordan said once that Spain because of it, really belongs to them.

Anyway I don't know that much about it. I only know that the Latin Church put the Filioque in the Creed to combat Arianism in Spain, and it was one of the reasons for the schism.

Mohamed's wife asked him if he was certain that the angel that gave him the Quran was really an angel from God, and not a fallen angel - since they can pass themselves off as an angel of light. I do know know that the Quran in the original Arabic is outstanding and very mesmerizing - and to be honest I'm a little wary of verse. Seems it's used by warlocks and witches like Nostradamus and Mother Shipton - and me.

I read once about a contest in a Gulf country, where the boy who can best memorize the Quran is given an award. I found this strange, because in our Western mind reasoning and comprehension would take precedence over memory and rote.

Personally I liked Pope Benedict XVI because he was a theologian and brilliant. I remember when he had quoted a Byzantine Emperor who asked a Muslim scholar; 'what did Mohamed add more to the vision of God given to us by Christ'. Well the Muslims freaked, and felt they were being insulted - even though Benedict was just quoting an Emperor. Not much reasoning there.

 

Actually they're not voices. It's more of an enlightenment. There are times though when they are voices, such as those heard by Joan of Arc, and I recall the Catholic Church was skeptical of them. I even heard of an unbelievable miracle on a religious Greek youtube that had to do with the voice of Saint George - and the girl was a Muslim no less.

I think it really has to do with the fruits. If the voices are letting you know that you have a winning hand at poker, then believe me they're not from God. If they are bringing you closer to God, then they are.

One should never judge a tree by its stature,
nor the power of the name it wears.
One's judgement should only come,
through the merits of the fruit it bears - Jeannette​

 

Bless you.

 

Too true !

 

Jeanette, those Turkish officials agreed to 'act' because they knew it would bring in mondo tourist dollars. You need to research more.

FTR, that's a totally natural geological formation. A rudely shaped one, but a natural one all the same.

 

It is ENTRAPMENT because your imaginary "creator" NEFARIOUSLY set them up to FAIL!

It would be the same thing as leaving a bottle of booze in a room with an alcoholic. You already KNOW beforehand that they cannot resist taking a drink.

What is even worse about that bovine excrement superstition is that it places the primary BLAME on Eve which makes your imaginary "creator" a misogynist.

 

Apostolic succession a Church teaching wich includes murderers in their list. Great.

Mohammeds travels took him as far as Jerusalem we are told. Most likely because that was important for trade, and possibly to the Palestinian ports. His Qu'ran is simply taken from the OT. He had contact with Jews and probably Christians but his teaching focuses on the OT. Probably because he was able to read the Tanakh, his language being similar to Hebrew. I doubt he had any ability to read the Bible of the day which had been translated from the Greek to Latin 2-3 centuries earlier and was the established book for Christians.

Mohammeds wife......... like everything about Mohammed you have to believe if you're a follower - doubt if you're not.

I love verse and write a lot of poetry myself.

 

With no witnesses to support the story, one wonders at the faith people put in Islam, Church of L. S., etc.
Christianity grew for hundreds of years without imposing itself by violence. People were obviously experiencing something in their lives.
This is the basis of any real faith; personal revelation. A religion that teaches that revelation is finished, that hearsay must be accepted as absolute authority, works against the spirit and mind of humanity.

 

Lordy Lordy...

Somewhere around 5000 years ago someone found some dinosaur bones in a dry riverbed.
Knowing the creature they found was nowhere to be found in their current world they came up with an explanation
River = water
Water = flood
Flood =boat
Boat saves critters
Critters not on boat die out.

Call this Darwin Part 1.

 

It may be even easier: around five thousand years ago someone ate the 'wrong' mushrooms and convinced too many friends that what he saw applied forever and to everyone.