Europe is abandoning Trump on the world stage as it turns away from the US toward China

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by dairyair, May 20, 2020.

  1. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    I guess you do. Tell me what name you think I inferred. Maybe you didn’t mean name calling but meant critical analysis of your post. Some people take great offense to that.
     
  2. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    A
    And Trump did this how?
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How about you explain to me what your post inferred - if something other than what is suggested :)
     
  4. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Threatened the nations of the world with the so called "Nuclear Option" - threatening to block banks and corporations out of the international system of payments for violating his unilateral sanctions that they do not agree with.
     
  5. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    It inferred your post in question was just as I stated, a long rambling nonsensical TDS diatribe.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  6. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Kind of like Reagan did when he was in the process of bringing the Soviet Union to it’s knees. Trump reminds me of Reagan too. We agree on that at least.
     
  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    right - so this is name calling of a sort - inferring that I was spouting nonsense. A spewer of nonsense :)

    That you did not back up your claim - means your post also doubles as Ad Hom Fallacy.
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nope - has no similarities to that. Reagan did not threaten the economic sovereignty of near the entire would - should they not go along with some unilateral sanctions. What on earth are you talking about ?

    I agree that Trump is similar to Reagan in other ways though ... Spending money like a princess with a credit card being the main one.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  9. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    “Spewer of nonsense” Very creative. LOL
    Make it your signature.


    Oh and I guess you just called me spewer of Ad Hom Fallacy. LOL
    This is fun
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  10. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Reagan did indeed threaten the world and Europe in particular with the same unilateral sanctions you accuse Trump of and then some. It was about slowing their progress on the gas line to Europe and making it as expensive for them to build as possible. He even forced one company in Europe to sell them bad technology that the Soviets spent billions on and it didn’t work. That’s what I’m talking about and your welcome .
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  11. Pred

    Pred Well-Known Member

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    We mostly agree. But no one is making grandmaster moves. Maybe China because they get to play with a loaded deck with no rules at all that the rest of the 1st world hs to follow. Since every other western nation actually cares about human life. China doesn’t give a ****.
     
  12. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    That’s because Europe is run by weak men, or feminists. Most of their real male population died in the two great wars, so the fact that the continent is gravitating towards nations like Iran and China is a testament to its demographic (and societal) circumstances.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  13. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    You think Iran and China are being run by feminists? LOL.
    We won't take you serious anymore.
     
  14. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Um, I was clearly referring to Europe.
     
  15. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Read your very own post. You state Europe is gravitating towards Iran and China. As they are becoming more feminist.

    Do you have something against females?
     
  16. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    I said Europe is gravitating towards the latter countries because the continent is feminist.

    No, it’s just that they make terrible rulers.
     
  17. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I stand by my original post to you.
     
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The turn around in China over the last 2-3 decades - was the result of some very good moves. On this I think we can agree.

    Our position on the board has changed - we used to be the only game in town - now we are one of many.

    We can not "go it alone" and expect to have much success - like we could in the past. Alliances with other economic powers is more important than ever.

    Using our world reserve currency status aka "The nuclear option" - violating the sovereignty of every nation in the world that matters - threatening to block a nations banks and corporations out of the international system of payments - was a bold but extremely risky move.

    The move turned out to be a big blunder - sure using such a club Trump obtained compliance - but it was unwilling compliance - and these nations are now getting payback... and have become somewhat of a pariah.

    We used to just whisper our desires into the ears of our of other nations - and they would come running to submit - back when we were the only game in town economically - and everyone wanted to play.

    The board has changed - China surpassed the US in purchasing power in 2013 ... the EU has an economy the same size - as does India when coupled with a few other nations - Japan , S. Korea and so on.

    While Trump is going around clubbing the nations of the world into submission - China and Russia are going around doing deals - and expanding their economic influence.

    Everytime we turn around --- its FU. The reaction from the nations of the world was visceral - not in private - but on the public stage - "You are messing with our sovereignty"

    Imagine you were purchasing manager - that nation is one of the bidders - bottom of the pile perhaps !?

    Nordstream 2 - Germany - FU
    The EU - 5G - and numerous other nations - FU
    Italy - Belt and Road Initiative - FU
    Turkey/India S400 - FU

    The list goes on and on .. Trump knows his move was a blunder - This one in particular 19 of 22 of his own inner cabinet advised against.

    Backing out of the deal was a blunder .. .. hands down .. but OK - fine - go your own way - but don't expect every other party to that agreement to bow down to you in subservience with respect to Unilateral punishment of Iran - a nation with which they are still trying to salvage remnants of the deal.

    and when they baulked - threatening the nuclear option - waging economic war on every other nation in the world that matters - while trying to conduct a Trade war with China at the same time.

    This is fkn stupid .

    Anyways - Trump made bold and aggressive move on the geopolitical chessboard to win a pawn - and the response was not what was hoped for - and our position was weakened ..and continues to weaken further as long as this persists.

    This is not what winning looks like - this is what losing looks like.
     
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  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What unilateral sanctions (expand and support your claims) - and what does this have to do with ending the cold war with Russia - but more importantly - how is the same as the Iran situation and what are the differences ?

    One huge factor that you omit - aka "sin of omission" is comment on whether or not the participants to these sanctions were willing ?
     
  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both are your signature :)
     
  21. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    This answers your second question.


    “As such, the sanctions caused outrage in
    Western Europe, the U.S.’s allies seeing this as an infringement on their rights as sovereign nations”

    Which is contained in the following link which answers your first question. I’m actually surprised somebody that claims to be so informed is so uninformed about US history.

    https://cpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/wp.to...2017/11/REAGAN-PIPELINE-SANCTIONS-19q6whn.pdf


    Your reading assignment for tonight. See you in the am
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  22. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    I tire of this juvenile game but feel free to carry on without me. It was fun for a bit though so thanks.
     
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What an idiotic comment - I asked you to provide back up for your claim - I did not deny your claim. So desperate are you to demonize the messenger.

    Finally you actually provided support for your claim - Oh happy day - What you completely fail to do is outline the differences.
    Trump made a similar move on the board - and you have outlined those similarities - but the position on the board was different was different.

    Reagan's move turned out to be good. Trumps move on the other hand did not - and that is the part of the story you are missing.

    Outline the reactions to Reagan's move by the pissed off nations - and contrast to the reactions to Trumps move.
     
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then stop playing them so often - and encouraging them.. Learn how to post without some kind of ad hom demonization fallacy while you are at it.
     
  25. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    And good morning to you my fine feathered friend.:)

    You asked a question in your first paragraph and the link I provided answered it in depth.

    You made an accusation in your second paragraph and the link I provided debunked it.

    Trump is doing the same to Iran as Reagan did to the Soviet Union, breaking their financial back.

    You're welcome and enjoy this fine spring day. Get outside and enjoy life. You seem tense and irritable.



     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020

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