To those of you who are wearing masks in public.

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by btthegreat, May 19, 2020.

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  1. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    Umm....

    "On this somber Memorial Day weekend, America is approaching the grim milestone of 100,000 Covid-19 deaths in a population of 330 million. Six Asia-Pacific nations -- Australia, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, Taiwan and Vietnam -- have just over 1,200 coronavirus deaths in a combined population almost the same as the US, 328 million. On May 23, the Johns Hopkins coronavirus tracker shows that America recorded 1,208 new deaths, while the six Asia-Pacific countries recorded just 13 deaths: 12 in Japan, 1 in Australia, and 0 in the others."

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/24/opinions/covid-politics-hundred-thousand-deaths-sachs/index.html

    Did you ever consider that maybe you aren't an expert in epidemiology or virology and that you might want to reference some evidence, reason, logic, or at least expert opinion when sharing your thoughts so publicly?
     
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  2. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree you have a very simplistic understanding of economics. A great deal of the hit to the economy is from lock downs and selective business closures. It has destroyed small businesses and given the advantage to large retailers, processors, and suppliers. This will go down in history as the greatest driver of wealth inequality ever imposed on society.
     
  3. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    You understand that the lock downs happened as a result of the global pandemic, don't you? I feel like I shouldn't have to make this blatantly obvious points, but you don't seem to be taking them into account when making your posts.

    Secondly, there are currently 3 states that are still under lock down. Illinois, New Jersey, and Delaware are still under full lock down. There are 11 that still have some partial or locally specific lock down orders in place. Every other state has already re-opened or never closed down in the first place. Why are we still seeing enormous numbers of unemployment claims coming in? Why hasn't that V shaped recovery started? The answer is, that when we are faced with an uncontrolled pandemic, people's behavior shifts dramatically. Even without lock down, millions of Americans are still not going to go out. Even without lock downs, millions of Americans aren't going to go back to business as usual. Either we get the virus under control or the economy isn't going to rebound in any particularly significant manner.
     
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  4. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Try this logic. As long as there is international travel, no widespread use of a very effective vaccine, and no natural herd immunity, any control is a temporary illusion. You should try thinking for yourself instead of parroting an opinion piece from CNN. LOL.

    Ironically your link points to the boneheaded moves by states like NY as the core of our problem. If Cuomo was in charge of Japan they would be dying like flies in Japan. I’m just thankful I live in a place where our intelligence mirrors that of Asian countries instead of NY politicians. :)
     
  5. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    What should have Cuomo done?
     
  6. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    Nope, that is wrong. Can we keep the number of cases at zero, of course not. However, the things you point to clearly aren't necessary, because none of the countries mentioned in that link banned international travel, has a vaccine, or has herd immunity. What they have is effective leadership and public health infrastructure in place. We can effectively control the virus (not eliminate mind you) with similar policies. We could test, trace, and quarantine. We could do this with all incoming international travelers, where at minimum we should have body temperature scanners set up in every airport. Guess what? Japan has that, Korea has that, and we don't. We could test more people and then do more significant amounts of contact tracing. There are hurdles to being able to achieve that, because the electronic means of contact tracing that has been tried in Asia is not going to happen here, but we could be making steps in that direction. Sadly, because of a total lack of leadership, we have done NOTHING to try to achieve those aims.
     
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  7. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    appropriate masks with proper training and they don't re-use the silly home-made masks, or wear them for extended periods of time.

    They also know not to touch the masks with fingers, adjust them, scratch their nose due to the moisture that silly home-mad masks promote. They understand cross-contamination. I say good for you if you feel morally superior for wearing your mask. If that helps you sleep at night then so be it.
     
  8. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    You felt it your place to become the mask police and then introduced your wife into the argument. Here's the deal, if you feared for you or your wife, stay home.
     
  9. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    correct, and then there are those who have a bias and agenda and politicize covid 19 when it should not be politicized. Which are you?

    Hmm, based upon your post, we already know
     
  10. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Historical and epidemiological data are inadequate to identify with certainty the pandemic's geographic origin, with varying views as to its location.
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Spanish_flu
    Feel free to return to inane cartoon responses.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  11. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    that's exactly what you should do until such time as you are told by MSNBC that it's safe, of if a Democrat wins in November.

    Sheesh, you have a choice, stay home masked up in your little alcove or go out and face the world. But, the world does not need to do as you say
     
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  12. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    the facilities did not fight back; it's a state govt mandate and has been. Even asymptomatic folks in nursing homes that tested positive are sent to the hospital where they take up resources and cannot be released until they have 2 successive negative test results. Those same hospitals receive little or no reimbursement from medicare or insurance because there is no reason for the person to be hospitalized. Thus, hospitals burn through cash and must layoff workers
     
  13. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    that is true but I'm not sure why you made that completely unrelated comment??????????
     
  14. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Much of the country was put under lockdown for purely emotional reasons. An example is upstate NY. There was no reason to apply the same measures to vastly different situations. If you knew anything about epidemiology or virology I wouldn’t have to bring this up.

    If you knew anything about economics or running a business you would know there isn’t going to be an immediate v-shaped curve. If there was a pill to cure fear there would be no v shaped curve. Small businesses that took years of hard work, often as a part time gig with another full time job to get it rolling are not coming back like that. You really should know these things before expressing your opinions in public.

    The economies of the countries you tout are destroyed. There is no v shaped curve there either.
     
  15. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Here's Florida

    https://www.sun-sentinel.com/corona...0200513-vdpc2txp7jeztepngt3dsk3eve-story.html

    Only a month ago, hospitals were eager to send elderly patients back to their long-term care facilities when they were still positive but no longer needed hospitalization. The facilities fought back, resisting re-admission until the residents were healthy and leaving the seniors caught in the middle.

    That's the same in NY and the same in Illinois and the same evertwhere I looked across the nation
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Who are you willing to lose?

    If there are no social distancing or precautions then you will inevitably lose someone you know
     
  17. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    Bingo!!!! and you were provided the correct equipment and trained on the correct use including sanitizing yourself and hospitals have proper disposal of contaminated PPE. All of that is true. Now let's discuss the home-made masks from cloth that are used and used and used for hours on end with touching, adjusting, they get all moist etc etc and then used again tomorrow after they hung from the rear view mirror of the car.
     
  18. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Nonsense. I'm in Orange Country. When we went on lockdown NYC had 150 cases and one death. We had nine

    We currently have 8,000 cases and 400 dead

    Without lockdown...who knows what it would look like here
     
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  19. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Don’t project your state’s failures on all states. That’s a common thing here these days.

    You are factually incorrect on your travel ban opinions. Australia banned travel. Japan is in the process of tightening its ban. It’s hard to take you seriously when you have no actual knowledge of reality.

    I don’t know what “experts” you are parroting, but I suggest a change, or even some critical thought on the subject.
     
  20. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    the claim of social distancing having been of help can never be proven because the reverse was never done. That is an easy scapegoat.

    We will never know the truth because too many politicians are invested in their lockdown policies and have the luxury f ebg able to make the unproven claim that it has helped.

    Until 100% of the population is tested for antibodies, we will never know the truth. At this point, we cannot afford to know the truth because it would create civil unrest to learn just how widespread was covid and also just how little was the mortality rate, yet we killed the economy.

    So, please continue with your emotional based and biased responses.
     
  21. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    I'm talking about Orange Man Obama had two terms, and failed, and it is 100% irrefutable:
    “We rate this claim TRUE because it is supported by our research. There is no indication that the Obama administration took significant steps to replenish the supply of N95 masks in the Strategic National Stockpile after it was depleted from repeated crises. Calls for action came from experts at the time concerned for the country’s ability to respond to future serious pandemics. Such recommendations were, for whatever reason, not heeded.” https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ation-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/

    "Orange Men are common; fifty States means less likelihood of all of them having Orange Men."

    Outbreaks don't stop at the borders of states, and the reason the National Stockpile did not work is because of CONGRESS; the President is not a stock clerk, nor would the Defense Production Act work because we still don't have enough masks made here for the Subways of New York city after it was used. Three plants and Ford innovation came way to late to stop the virus from infecting New York. FIRST RESPONDERS MUST BE LOCAL.

    We have effective PPE, it's made in China. MAGA is all about fixing that.

    The reason why the storage facilities are hidden is exactly why it is "academic" with regard to first response, they don't want them taken out; the Hồ Chí Minh trail worked, but it was a trail not a highway, our Interstate and Defense Highways could be a mess in an attack, meaning to get PPE to New York City would depend upon the local State stockpile.

    “(2) maintain an adequate supply of such supplies in each State and in the strategic national stockpile.

    “(c) Grants to States.—The Secretary shall award grants to States to enable States to establish an entity which shall—

    “(1) serve as a statewide repository of the supplies referred to in subsection (a); and

    “(2) provide for the tracking of the inventory and movement of such supplies using a private blockchain."
    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6607/text?r=192&s=1

    If the States were doing their job, they wouldn't need that legislation.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  22. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Untrue, there are many individuals that cannot wear a mask due to some form of autism or other anxiety problems.

    Given your obvious very public fears over the Chinese virus, why would you go anywhere near a person not wearing a mask? I
    would think you would make better choices.

    Have you considered wearing a mask and a face shield? That should help ease your concerns and you won't sound like Karen shouting at another shopper, especially one with a thick beard who's mask would do little or nothing to prevent you from as you call it, getting spewed on.
    BTW, in my area, Lowes and Home Depot do not require their customers wear a mask. Menards and Costco does but they make exceptions for those who cannot wear one for other reasons.

    The ordering Lysol wipes online conundrum; how do you get the package open to wipe the outside of the package before opening?
     
  23. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Great article addressing the changing attitudes and minds of the medical community. They are learning as they go. Unfortunately, with this virus, all are quick to publish their thoughts and, often, they are wrong. Face masks are one of the examples.

    "It’s “part of the process” that leading public health authorities would adapt their thinking based on new information.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/23/why...6k_PQ3KR_CNaiS7tUNqTBPUPLWLVQgMGU5ir8VoPLd4jQ
     
  24. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Add to that, the CDC now claiming the Chinese virus,
    "does not spread easily' from contaminated surfaces or animals, revised CDC website states"
     
  25. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    I wear a motorcycle helmet, but wearing both is somewhat uncomfortable for an old fart. I have to lift the shield on the helmet, at stop signs and in stores, gets oppressive in Florida for an old fart, basically aerosols would not be blocked, but chaos is what we are counting on, that guy that spits as he talks, I've met quite a few in my life.

    There are some small masks with a little ventilator attached to the exhaust port, to reduce the heat, a good seal probably not, obviously made in China.

     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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