To those of you who are wearing masks in public.

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by btthegreat, May 19, 2020.

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  1. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Another straw man, nobody said that. Even Democrats thought his Europe restriction was a wise move: https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/its-a...are-support-for-trump-over-europe-travel-ban/



    Probably a negotiation ploy, he wrote a book on it.


    We disagree, and perhaps he'll make you happy in his second term.
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You don't have any grounds for disagreement.

    He hasn't helped with anything at all. Suggesting he has is just ridiculous.
     
  3. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Unless they drop the ball. As has happened in South Korea

    -------------------------
    After a sustained period of reported cases in the country being below 20, a new cluster emerged in central Seoul. A 29-year-old patient from Yongin was found to have visited at least five nightclubs in Itaewon during the late night hours of May 1 and the subsequent early morning hours of May 2. After having gone to other places in Seoul and neighboring Gyeonggi and Gangwon provinces, he tested positive for COVID-19 and was admitted to a hospital in Suwon. His more than 1,300 contacts, several among them being difficult to identify and trace, were urged to self-isolate and have themselves tested for the virus.[86][87] Because of this incident, the Seoul city government has ordered all clubs, bars, room salons, and other nightlife establishments in the city to close indefinitely.[88] As of May 10, the number of cases that was linked to this cluster has since increased to 54, and is still expected to rise because of the large number of potentially exposed individuals.[89] On 11 May, there were 79 cases linked with the clubs in Itaewon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_South_Korea#May

    ----------------------------

    Infections linked to nightspots in the neighborhood of Itaewon continued to increase Monday, further raising the need to put a brake on the transmission chain that shows no signs of slowing.

    Itaewon-linked cases totaled 237 as of noon, up 12 cases from the previous day, according to health authorities. Of the total, 96 were those who had visited the infected locations, while 141 were those who were infected through family members or acquaintances.

    Most of the infections were concentrated in Seoul and the surrounding area, with 112 reported in Seoul, followed by 59 in surrounding Gyeonggi Province and 45 in the western port city of Incheon.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...asks-in-public.572730/page-28#post-1071723862
     
  4. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    You're babbling now.
    :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
    Consider this:

    "Farmers went broke during the 1930s and people with money (like me) continued to eat.

    Within the timespan of only a few months, the recession of 1929 developed into something much more serious, the Great Depression. Across the entire country people were out of work, production was down, and commodities were scarce.

    Many farmers not destroyed by the Dust Bowl and the inability to produce anything found that they suffered by falling prices and producing too much. No one could afford their products, and the decreasing demand only continued to lower prices so that even trying to sell was unprofitable. Because there were no large-scale programs that could distribute the unused food, many crops simply rotted in piles or spoiled in the fields, untouched. The Imperial Valley of California, for example, lost 2.8 million watermelons, 1.4 million crates of cantaloupes, and 22.4 million pounds of tomatoes in 1932 simply because it could not be sold, despite widespread poverty and hunger.

    In 1933, President Roosevelt budgeted $75 million to the Federal Emergency Relief Administration to purchase food for farmers, giving them revenue and a reason to continue farming.

    Many people turned to newly developed, mass-produced processed foods like canned meats, corn chips, and fruit-filled cakes.

    Scarcity led to resourceful food repurposing techniques. With as much as 25% unemployment nationwide and the looming danger of malnutrition and even starvation for entire families, few could afford any sort of food waste."

    http://exhibits.lib.usu.edu/exhibits/show/foodwaste/timeline/thegreatdepression
     
  5. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    “He” is Governor Cuomo. He should have done nothing. He should have left things to informed people capable of making wise decisions. NYC would have been better off if Cuomo had given DeBlasio more control.

    Are you really so uniformed you don’t know about nursing home deaths in NY? You don’t know about teachers in schools he wouldn’t close reportedly breaking down in tears because they were being expected to conduct classes amidst a pandemic without even soap or hand sanitizer in bathrooms? You didn’t know he only agreed to close schools after the SEIU withdrew their opposition? You didn’t know health experts in his own state were basically begging him to close schools? You don’t remember all the commotion about ventilators? Begging help from other states and claiming he needed almost 7 times the number used at peak hospitalization even after it was known ventilator use needed to be re-evaluated? Do you think he was blowing smoke or did he have vast state resources actually actively trying to acquire vents? Maybe just a new guy in a basement office making a couple calls a day to vent manufacturers? Seventy million dollars here for vents never delivered. Sixty million there for vents not delivered. You are right. That money couldn’t have been better allocated in a city with quite possibly the worst outbreak of C-19 on the planet. Of course not. Especially considering they are so broke they couldn’t maintain ventilators they once had. Looks like they will get the money back, but apparently it’s money they couldn’t afford to throw around with nothing to show for it. Seventy million might fund some actual research into treating or preventing the respiratory symptoms of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

    There is research that indicates mortality rate of intubated patients increases quite a bit when ICUs are understaffed or overworked. Maybe Cuomo could have offered respiratory therapists twiddling their thumbs in the heartland a million bucks to come operate vents he had instead of squandering money on ones he never got and spending time begging for loaners from other states. (Just for the record, I advocated for loaning vents between states on this forum and was told it wasn’t possible. Well it happened.)

    I guess you guys see something in Cuomo that others see in Trump. I don’t understand blind devotion to either one. I certainly don’t get the blind devotion to Cuomo by people who incessantly moan about devotion to Trump.

    I say it often, but it never seems to make an impression. Self awareness is not a prerequisite for being a progressive.
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Try comparing Sweden to the dramatically more successful Eastern Europe neighbours who locked down hard and early, and it looks even worse.
     
  7. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    The COST has been in lives to Sweden.

    And guess what...Sweden's economy is cratered and they have sacrificed their seniors...and herd immunity isn't on the horizon for a LONG time
     
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  8. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Assuming the needed 60%-70% infection rate doesn't collapse your nation, and assuming the virus doesn't mutate (it's probably already mutating in time for your next flu season).

    Though I guess if your nation has dropped the ball, herd immunity is your last hope. Not that it's much of a hope.
     
  9. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    And for all that...SK still has less than 11,000 cases and 270 deaths?

    They CAUGHT this because of testing and tracing and because they have been able to keep the number of cases low...

    SK "dropped the ball"? We have has ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND
     
  10. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they dropped the ball. They reopened some night spots, an infected individual went bar hopping and the infections started to "sky rocket."

    That's what happens when you open up, exponential growth resumes. Now they have to shut down again.

    You can run but you can't hide.

    ------------------------

    The basic reproduction number (R) of the novel coronavirus, or the average number of people one infected person is expected to transmit the disease to, had dropped to 0.58 by May 1 thanks to extensive social distancing, but jumped to an average of 2.58 between May 2 and 12, according to an estimate by Ki Mo-ran, a professor of preventive medicine at the National Cancer Center.

    If the R of an infectious disease is greater than 1, which means one infected person is infecting more than one other person, the outbreak is still growing.

    http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200522000539&np=1&mp=1
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  11. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Trying to claim that Trump did his job just blocking Chinese transport is rediculous....he didn’t do European. He didn’t do his job. Your’s is the straw man.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  12. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Strange country. Standing back ten feet as a courtesy when there is no good reason? That would give the impression of outright rudeness around here. Why would you need to clean off shelves to prepare? Bizarre.
    Your memory is poor. I had to explain why mark to market was even relevant to the financial crisis. I supplied links to real economists to back up my claims. And I never said anything about not regulating derivatives. Nor did I advocate abolishing them. I did give you the facts about who was responsible for the deregulation. :)

    Anyway, water under the bridge, but enough water to wash away any evidence of expertise on your part.
    I’m glad you didn’t have to do mandatory quarantine. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

    Could you clarify? I don’t want to misunderstand. Are you in favor of help for business or workers?

    Thanks for clarifying your opinion on what people are scared of. It’s interesting to me even if such widespread fear doesn’t exist here to observe directly. Still, we are left with the dog chasing his own tail. Around and around and around until herd immunity is finally reached.

    Oh I understand the draw of Canada. But something Trump or anything other politician said wouldn’t factor into my decision to shelter in Canada. That decision would have been made by me in advance based on more concrete metrics than rhetoric.

    They seemed like pretty serious dudes when I visited Canada in the ‘80’s. The ones at the US border made an impression. The ones checking/vacuuming cars to board the ferry to Newfoundland Island were a whole new ball game. I like Canada. It’s kind of like California. Beautiful, big, diverse, but too odd politically to appeal as a place to live. If I had to choose between those two it would be Canada though! I’ve not been in your area. I’d like to. I’d like to drive up through all the way to Alaska.
     
  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That Dems agreed with the ban isn't the issue. The issue is that it didnt happen until mid March and when it happened, it was a fiasco of lack of planning. The result was airports super crowded with people coming from Europe. None had PPE. Nobody had their temperature taken. People were pressed up against each other for HOURS.

    It was a perfect virus communication environment.

    It's no surprise that the preponderance of infection in America came from Europe, not China.

    Beyond that, there were no travel adviseries inside the US. So,those and others who taveled to FL for spring break, to Mardi Gras, etc., etc. spread that new viral load all across our nation.

    In fact, many thousands have traveled here from China and Europe AFTER the restrictions.

    Travel is one of the primary concerns, and essentially NOTHING has ben done about that at the federal level.
     
  14. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Comparing this virus to MERS and SARS is silly.
    You forgot the Trump cool aid cartoon.
    A lot of stuff in there that contradicts the first sentence but it’s an interesting piece anyway. Your claimed demographic had already jumped out of the 12th story window in 1929. :) Didn’t need to eat.

    It is true those with monetary assets eat longer than others that can’t provide for themselves physically or through purchasing essentials. But I wouldn’t get too comfortable in depending on money to always insulate you from reality. Doesn’t always work. Many wealthy people did not weather the ‘30’s well at all.

    It’s also a big illogical assumption things would play out the same today as in 1930’s America. It may go more the route of Russia 1930’s and we would both lose our assets and/or die a violent death. Liquid and non liquid assets are meaningless in that scenario. The moral compass that guided most Americans through the Great Depression has lost its needle. Things would certainly not play out the same today in my opinion.
     
  15. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    You may want to do a little research on the subject of school closures. Nothing you say here is relevant to my point. Who are “you guys”?

    The fools are the ones depending on and expecting guidance from politicians in a viral pandemic.

    Trump knew schools in NY didn’t even have soap and Cuomo and Warren Wilhelm didn’t? The SEIU was lobbying Trump, not New York politicians? Please provide evidence.

    You are all living in a world fabricated for you by those you accept as your betters.
     
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The virus that causes COVID19 IS SARS!

    It's SARS-CoV-2.

    Good LORD!!
     
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  17. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    You are embarrassing yourself. Read the thread. Do some research. Get back to me or slink off... up to you.
     
  18. Richard Franks

    Richard Franks Well-Known Member

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    I seeing less people wearing masks in my neighborhood. Would you wonder what that meant?
     
  19. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Sweden's death rate is less than Italy and Spain, both did lockdowns.
     
  20. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    I'll ask you, was the Spanish Flu President Wilson's fault? China bots blame everyone but China.
     
  21. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Viruses often mutate in a weaker variation.

    We haven't dropped the ball, the virus is what it is, just like Obama's flu.
     
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The first case of Spanish flu that became known in America was in Kansas on a military base. There is reason to believe that that was actualy the first case.

    From there, the US government hid all news of this virus, because it would slow the administration in sending troops to Europe. In Europe, there was also a news blackout, so the only real news got out through Spain, which wasn't under the wartime news blackout.

    So, our federal government absolutely did have a hand in spreading that virus throughout the US and the world.
     
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  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    ??
    This is just plain silly.

    It's like the pupil who says he shoudn't have to know X because X was taught last term.

    The CDC, Obama, medical experts, people like Bill Gates who have experience fighting disease all stated that we needed to prepare, because we WILL have more of these.

    Trump explicitly killed efforts to become prepared.

    There is ABSOLUTELY no way to suggest we didn't drop the ball.

    Beyond that, we are doing NOTHING today at the federal level. In fact, the federal government now claims testing is fully the responsibility of states - which is just plain STUPID for several clear reasons.

    Today, we have more cases of COVID19 in the USA than we have ever had.

    Yet for months we've been told it is just going away and advised to ignore our situation and actually take action AGAiNST COVID.

    Instead, Trump is requiring workers to go to work with NO regard for conditions. He has gutted OSHA. He's protected corporations from having ANY legal responsibility for workers.

    In fact, corporations that are clearly serious sources of this public threat are no longer even required to REPORT CASES to groups chartered to address public health.


    What we're doing today is treason - we've JOINED COVID against America.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) SOME do, and SOME don't. This one's unknown, so it's a guessing game.

    2) That's true. You can't drop a ball you never picked up. Anyway, when you're lying face down in surrender it's difficult to hold onto the ball.
     
  25. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    There's a lot of waffle in there but nothing of substance. All you wrote was on what you say was done which was of no significant difference to what was done in rest of the country, not what he should have done other than you saying he should have directed funds to more research! How would more research helped stop the deaths. stopping flights from Europe is something that should have been done in February. Compulsory mask wearing. It's the "no one tells me what to do" attitude which is the biggest threat from the virus. That is the difference between the West and the Far Eastern countries
     

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