Trump Plans to Withdraw thousands of U.S. Troops From Germany, a Key NATO Ally

But he doesn't sound like Sobo, who was repulsed by people in other cultures.

 

They are part of NATO. Which means the U.S. has treaty obligations with them.

Why are you whining about treaties with the U.S. anyway? It isn't like the U.S. has ever violated any of its treaties with Germany.

 

Lol how about the no spy treaty that the US violated. How about the Iran deal which Germany signed as well and UA broke it?

 

How about we pull out of the world, which I think Trump has been trying to do, and bring our troops home to defend our own borders if we're attacked - which is unlikely. I don't know what we have that China, Russia, Iran or any other nation would want.

Anyway a war is coming for sure in Europe, but I don't know if we will be involved because of our internal political problems. They won't go away, and will only intensify. Either we are going to end up in a civil war, or avoid it by going to war with China.

Then again if Europe is in a war, which it will be thanks to Russia getting fed up, and eventually ripping Turkey apart for its Ottoman ambitions in the Eastern Mediterranean, then we'll probably end up in it the way we did in WWI and WWII. One thing's for sure, it ain't gonna be good for anyone.

Anyway I'm just speculating because of Turkey's support of terrorists and its refusal to leave Syria, as well as its illegal troop build up in Libya to support the Muslim Brotherhood president and take over the oil fields - as well as it's threats and disregard for international law regarding the territorial waters of Cyprus and the Greek islands.

 

Well, since you are blatantly ignorant of your country's history, I will take it upon myself and show you at least one typical characteristic trait of your leadership: Torture...

of Defendants at the Nuremberg Trial
Allied prosecutors used torture to help prove their case at Nuremberg and other postwar trials.

Former Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höss was tortured by British officials into signing a false and self-incriminating "confession" that has been widely cited as a key document of Holocaust
extermination. His testimony before the Nuremberg Tribunal, a high point of the proceeding, was perhaps the most striking and memorable evidence presented there of a German extermination program.
Höss maintained that two and half million people had been killed in Auschwitz gas chambers, and that another 500,000 inmates had died there of other causes. No serious or reputable historian now accepts either of these fantastic figures, and other key portions of Höss' "confession" are now generally acknowledged to be untrue.

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn has cited the case of Jupp Aschenbrenner, a Bavarian who was tortured into signing a statement that he had worked on mobile gas chambers ("gas vans") during the war. It wasn't until several years later that he was finally able to prove that he had actually spent that time in Munich studying to become an electric welder.

Fritz Sauckel, head of the German wartime labor mobilization program, was sentenced to death at the main Nuremberg trial. An important piece of evidence presented to the Tribunal by the US prosecution was an affidavit signed by the defendant. It turned out that Sauckel had put his signature to this self-incriminating statement, which had been presented to him by his captors in finished form, only after he was bluntly told that if he hesitated, his wife and children would be turned over to the Soviets.
"I did not stop to consider, and thinking of my family, I signed the document," Sauckel later declared.

Hans Fritzsche, another defendant in the main Nuremberg trial, was similarly forced to sign a self-damning confession while he was a prisoner of the Soviet secret police in Moscow. (Nuremberg document USSR-474.)

Nuremberg defendant Julius Streicher, who was eventually hanged because he published a sometimes sensational anti-Jewish weekly paper, was brutally mistreated following his arrest. He was badly beaten, kicked, whipped, spat at, forced to drink saliva and burned with cigarettes. His genitals were beaten. Eyebrow and chest hair was pulled out. He was stripped and photographed.

Fellow defendant Hans Frank was savagely beaten by two black GIs shortly after his arrest.

August Eigruber, former Gauleiter of Upper Austria, was mutilated and castrated at the end of the war.
.....
The testimony of the prosecution's chief witness in the Nuremberg "Wilhelmstrasse" trial was obtained by threat of death. The American defense attorney, Warren Magee, had somehow obtained the transcript of the first pretrial interrogation of Friedrich Gaus, a former senior official in the German Foreign Office. Despite frantic protests by prosecuting attorney Robert Kempner, the judge decided to permit Magee to read from the document. During the pretrial interrogation session,
Kempner told Gaus that he would be turned over to the Soviets for hanging. Tearfully pleading for mercy, Gaus begged Kempner to think of his wife and children. Kempner replied that he could save himself only by testifying in court against his former colleagues. A desperate Gaus, who had already endured four weeks in solitary confinement, agreed. When Magee finished reading from the damning transcript, Gaus sat with both hands to his face, totally devastated.

American soldiers repeatedly beat former SS captain Konrad Morgen in an unsuccessful effort to force him to sign a perjured affidavit against Ilse Koch, a defendant in the US military's 1947 "Buchenwald" case. American officials also threatened to turn Morgen over to the
Soviets if he did not sign the false statement.

Luftwaffe General Field Marshal Erhard Milch was warned by a US Army Major to stop testifying on behalf of Hermann Göring in the main Nuremberg trial. The American officer told Milch that if he persisted, he would be charged as a war criminal himself, regardless of whether or not he was guilty. Milch did not back down and was indeed charged. In 1947 a US Nuremberg court sentenced him to life imprisonment as a war criminal. Four years later, though, the US High Commissioner commuted his sentence to fifteen years, and a short time after that Milch was amnestied and released. (Milch was Jewish!)

Reports of widespread torture at the postwar American-run "war crimes" trials at Dachau leaked out, resulting in so many protests that a formal investigation was eventually carried out. A US Army Commission of inquiry consisting of Pennsylvania Judge Edward van Roden and Texas Supreme Court Judge Gordon Simpson officially confirmed the charges of gross abuse. German defendants, they found, were routinely tortured at Dachau with savage beatings, burning matches under fingernails, kicking of testicles, months of solitary confinement, and threats of family reprisals.
......
One Dachau trial court reporter was so outraged at what was happening there in the name of justice that he quit his job. He testified to a US Senate subcommittee that the "most brutal" interrogators had been three German-born Jews. Although operating procedures at the Dachau
trials were significantly worse than those used at Nuremberg, they give some idea of the spirit of the "justice" imposed on the vanquished Germans.

Virtually all of the US investigators who brought cases before American military courts at Dachau were "Jewish refugees from Germany" who "hated the Germans," recalled Joseph Halow, a US Army court reporter at the Dachau trials in 1947. "Many of the investigators gave vent to their hatred by attempting to force confessions from the Germans by treating them brutally," including "severe beatings."

The case of Gustav Petrat, a German who had served as a guard at the Mauthausen, was not unusual. After repeated brutal beatings by US authorities, he broke down and signed a perjured statement. He was also whipped and threatened with immediate shooting. Petrat was prevented from securing exonerating evidence, and even potential defense witnesses were beaten and threatened to keep them from testifying. After a farcical trial by a US military court at Dachau,
Petrat was sentenced to death and hanged in late 1948. He was 24 years old.

Pohl summed up the character of the postwar trials of German leaders:

It was obvious during the Dachau trials, and it also came out unmistakably and only poorly disguised during the Nuremberg trials, that the prosecution authorities, among whom Jews predominated, were driven by blind hatred and obvious lust for revenge. Their goal was
not the search for truth but rather the annihilation of as many adversaries as possible.

I could go on! But at least you now have some documented material that might open your eyes and mind.

Here is more to read and absorb:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p167_Weberb.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_and_the_United_States

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.history.what-if/dDEP_nNXII0

 

Need reliable unbiased sources.

 

Fake News.

 

The Iranian Deal was never a valid treaty as far as the United States is concerned because the U.S. Senate never ratified it.

Not ratified, not a binding treaty for the United States.

 

The United States is not defendable from within its own borders.

 

France kicked out U.S. troops in 1966 and the withdrawal hasn't hurt France of the U.S. one bit. If we withdrew all our troops from Germany, I don't think it would hurt either country. At one time we had over 300,000 troops in Germany, by 1990 they had been reduced to 200,000, today approximately 34,500 are left. Pulling another 9,000 or so from that is no big thing in my opinion.

Actually, bringing them all home wouldn't hurt either. I've always said, we shouldn't stay where we're not wanted. If 80% of Germans feel that way, oblige them.

 

France pulled out of NATO.
In name only.
France continued to station combat forces in West Germany and continued to cooperate and coordinate with NATO forces. It was widely assumed that in the event of a Soviet invasion of West Germany that France would stand alongside NATO forces.

And Ramstein air base in Germany is still too vital to U.S. interests for the U.S. to leave it.

 

Why is it dumb to oblige Merkle, her political group and the people of Germany? When here the left calls for cutting defense spending and the first place to do that could be bringing back our troops from Europe.
German official calls report of Trump’s plan to pull troops ‘unacceptable’
"Johann Wadephul, the deputy chairman of the Union’s parliamentary caucus, said the U.S.'s decision to withdraw troops without consulting with its NATO allies “shows once again that the Trump administration is neglecting basic leadership tasks.”
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/me...f-trumps-plan-to-pull-troops-unacceptable.amp

How about his country and the rest of NATO showing leadership and taking over, finally, the leadership role in their own defense and THEY PAY FOR IT???

What is unexceptable is the constant anti-America diatribes we here coming from his country including that by it's leaders.

 

How does this hurt the US?

 

Nope actually true.

 

This post sounds oddly hostile for one on a story in which you seem to prefer the direction it's going. From this thread, it looks like you want US troops out of Germany, and so does Trump, so what's the problem?

Honestly, we are going our separate ways anyway, so it's pointless to try to keep holding together institutions that no longer match the current geo-political reality. I'm talking about NATO of course. It was a defense agreement that was designed to protect Western Europe from the Soviets, but now, there are no Soviets, and Germany wants greater economic ties with Russia. So it's ridiculous for your country to be locked in a defense agreement with a country that you hate more than Russia.

Germany should withdraw from NATO. That would take care of your foreign troops problem (or at least your western ones, heh!) and everyone wins.

 

That is correct, but completely unimportant. The contract became a UN treaty.

But it is the attitude, just because the US changes the President, treaties signed do not become irrelevant. The way Trump pulled out showed that the US is not a reliable partner. Same for the Trans Pacific, same for Paris and so on.
Same for this planed troop removal, none of the NATO partners were informed, not even NATO.
It is just a childish Tantrum by Bunker Boy, because Merkel ruined his beautiful and bigly G7

 

Nope. Fake News!

 

Why should Germany withdraw, the US should withdraw, because it is so unhappy with its partners.
Just leave, but the US is not going to do that, because it would loose all its influence in Europe and would loose billions of dollars in military infrastructure in very stable countries.
34,500 men are a token, they will not defend any thing.

 

Naturally France would have stood with NATO. I served along side French soldiers, great guys.

 

You should ask yourself why that is ?

 

There are still countries in Europe and in NATO who are concerned about Russians. Poland and the Baltic nations for example. The US should stay in NATO to help defend weaker countries who feel they have legitimate foreign policy threats from Russia.

However, that doesn't describe Germany. Germany is seeking closer relations with Russia and as far as I can tell, do not seem to regard Russia as any sort of military threat. So what possible reason would Germany have for staying in NATO, an alliance with Americans (boo! Hiss!) which polling shows that a majority of Germans want out of their country?

 

You should inform yourself. NATO is becoming a side show in Europe. They are doing there own thing and all the US of Bunker Boy can do is throw childish tantrums.

 

To help defend those Baltic Nations, Germany has troops in those countries. Germany has certain economic interests with Russia, which the US do not like, because it would like to sell its oil and gas to Germany, at a far higher price.
Germany leads the European sanction against Russia.
Germany and Poland have joint Units, same with Hungarian and other East European countries.
Is the US needed not really, it could leave NATO and nobody would notice.

 

His problem is, Trump said it.

 

Why, we have two oceans? We're fortress America, remember?