I can't be friends with political opponents

Discussion in 'Member Casual Chat' started by Le Chef, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Why, Foolardi? Because a majority of voters nationally did not support it.

    They do now, and the number is growing every day.
     
  2. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What We the People are witnessing is something in the works
    for some time.The Takeover of this Country by the Totalitarians.
    We have now had more than enough examples of how that works.
    How these Democrats used the word " Obstructionist " repeatedly
    in desribing the GOP when Harry Reid was the Majority leader in
    the senate.Then even before Nancy Pelosi was put back as Speaker
    in the Fall 2018 Election,we had an Obstuction of a fine Man seeking the
    Supreme Court.Brett Kavanaugh was raked thru the coals.This Totalitarian
    Mob were unforgiving in their attempts to smear,denigrate and embarrass
    his every word and action.Based in choreographed gossip and innuendo.
    Then we had the same crap with Pelosi leading her Totalitarian Mob
    into Impeachment.Not a single Republican voted in favor of Impeachment.
    Well there was Just one ... Mitt Romney,a RHINO. The only time in
    Impeachment history that a Senator voted to Impeach a member of
    their own party.
    Then onto this Corn Virus.No finer example of Totalitarians than
    the way Governors of Blue States treated their flock.Basically ...
    Just Shut-up and do as yer told.
    Never in our History has such a thing took place.
    Because our History didn't have such a Corrupted Mainstream
    media to act as benefactors to One Party.The Democrat Party.
    And this MSM did so w/o losing a paycheck.
    Now we're onto outright Tribalism.You are either With BlackLivesMatter
    or you'll be rooted-out,exposed and condemned.Just short of what
    happened during the Salem Witch Trials.
    Obstructionism ... anyone.How about a mix of Tribalism and
    Totalitarinism.I mean,it you don't like or can't stand a sitting President.
    Try Invading his House.
    Oh! you already have.
    I Rest Me Case !
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  3. emilynghiem

    emilynghiem Active Member Past Donor

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    Dear @Le Chef
    I am STILL arguing with a loyal Democrat friend,
    where he used to YELL at me over the phone about BUSH.
    Now it's YELLING online about TRUMP.

    What I can tell you is
    1. Don't throw ALL friends together in one group.
    Take it ONE PERSON at a time.
    Stick to ONE issue either you or that person cares about so much
    you'd be willing to argue for 10 years to finally get it straight
    "what the SOLUTION" is that doesn't require you to agree on anything else
    but that SOLUTION. Then only talk to that person in the context
    where you agree on a BEST SOLUTION. When you can work that out,
    anything else will follow.

    2. With each person, find a SEPARATE angle you both care about.
    * Like wanting to save endangered animals, instead of arguing about climate change.
    * Wanting to have better water quality, or more sustainable ways to pay
    for firefighters, instead of fighting over liberals or conservatives being in charge of policy.
    * Or supporting Microlending and business training so people can become independent,
    as both Obama and Ben Carson advocate that approach to ending overreliance on govt welfare or handouts.

    You are doing good to find ONE angle you both agree on better solutions to!
    If you can find more than one, that's better. But follow up on just one idea
    and that's enough to have a productive relationship.

    3. Be willing to trade off.
    For each issue you have a problem with on their side,
    they have an issue with your side. If you can agree to drop both,
    the focus of that same argument will shift toward some other solutions.

    For example, last time with Bush, where my Democrat friend could only
    support "voting Bush out of office" what we AGREED on is HELPING VETERANS.
    Anything to do with Helping Veterans didn't bring up conflicts,
    but allowed us to focus on something stable we had in common.

    This time, I thought bringing up Medical Cooperatives would help.
    Sean Hannity has promoted that to solve the health care problems
    by letting everyone choose their own way of providing benefits.
    Then I found NONPROFIT health care cooperatives, that allow people
    equal freedom either to go through govt, nonprofit, or business programs
    to set up access to health care benefits and providers, whichever costs less or works best.

    My friend didn't trust that, so we argued AGAIN about Trump and Republicans
    and now "evil Libertarians" against govt.

    Where we did find we agreed:
    1. working to prevent abortion where prolife and prochoice can agree
    2. stopping corporate ABUSES of govt (not just opposing govt or attacking one party)
    3. uniting Black leaders and voters instead of dividing them

    The Trump/Republican issue is still all my friend wants to focus on right now.
    He says "after the election" then he will pursue the specific problems and solutions.

    I'm saying we should all unite first on solutions, then lobby the parties to invest there.
    Instead of wasting twice the money fighting each other for the same office positions.
    Why not agree in advance on solutions, and use the political donations
    to create jobs implementing those reforms?

    It can still be part of the political campaigns, to do the actual work
    instead of making empty promises in the media.

    That's what I lobby people to look for:
    solutions we agree on that we'd rather invest money in
    instead of wasting twice as much that could have
    paid for JOBS for party leaders and candidates
    to DO THE WORK they envision or promise!
    Why not invest directly?

    So having THAT conversation, and hearing answers from different people
    actively involves even "friends who political oppose" each other's parties or candidates.

    When we discuss solutions we can all support, that puts the focus on common ground.
     
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  4. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Some of you who follow Trump may be true Americans.

    I don't see how that could be but I will give some of you the benefit of the doubt.
     
  5. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    Be my guest.
     
  6. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    Sure.:rolleyes:

    There was some Roman, whose name I can't recall, who decided, as the barbarians were overrunning Europe, as the Trump hating rioters in Minneapolis have done lately, that there was nothing left to do but retire to his villa and write poetry. If he were alive today, he'd load up on some ammo first, but would decide essentially the same thing. I know. I am he.

    The ultimate outcome will be different this time, I hope.

    But mark you ... there will be no conservatives or Maga-hat wearing rednecks burning our cities, taking over city hall, and shooting cops when Biden wins (and I do think he will win). Nor will Fox News nod approvingly at any violence directed against political opponents.
     
  7. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, HereWeGoAgain, for being very clear about Trump's unAmerican-ness.

    Those who can't handle that: well, that is their problem.
     
  8. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump's Unamericaness eh. Give an example.
    I can easily give weekly examples of Democrats like Pelosi
    and Schumer and how their words and Theatre do nothing to
    help America and Americans.In fact,that is basically what I do here.
    Trump is a Showman and Promoter.But always for the best.
    Give an example of Trump NOT promoting Americaness.
    Talk is less than cheap,particularly now.
     
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  9. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Foolardi is following the Trump playbook.

    President Trump, stop lying.
     
  10. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am no longer going to read yer posts.
    They are little more than Street Graffiti slogans.
    Fitting enough for lame bumper stickers.
     
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  11. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Foolardi is describing his own writing.

    President Trump, stop lying
     
  12. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Must be someone I have blocked... decided long ago they add nothing to the conversation.. I already know what their talking points are, they must all get a blast email has to what to parrot on any given day. Trump is the best President we've EVER had.. say anything different then I don't want to hear it.. and in my daily real world, I never do.
     
  13. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    :) Chest pounding above
     
  14. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    So you want liberals to not mind if we have a president who is the kind of man who would have sex with another woman other than his newly wed had given birth?

    although in the annals of history, some president's cheated on their wives, but they didn't do it just after their newly wed wife had given birth, let alone do it to a newly wed wife, and they didn't pay the porn star to keep quiet about just before an election and allow your long time attorney to go to jail and and not even pardon the guy for doing YOUR time.

    You want liberals to not mind a president who trolls us daily?

    It's probably because, before Trump, president's didn't troll. There's a difference between criticism and trolling, the difference is night and day.

    If you were trolled every day of the week, for years, how would you feel?

    Since Trump doesn't troll you you don't feel it.

    Presidents, before Trump, didn't so this type thing:



    Blatant, in your face, beyond the pale, outright and over the top lying.

    It's probably because no president prior to this one didn't permanently separate parents from children for no greater crime than a class B misdemeanor.

    It's probably because no president prior ot this one would have the cruel heart to send 700,000 Americans, though they weren't born here when they were born, they lived and worked here all their lives and no president prior to this one would send them back to their country of origin, a country most of them do not know, nor do they even know the language they speak their ( most of them ).

    Probably because, while blatantly lying on TV that he did more for health care for than dems, he has team Trump arguing before the supreme court to kill Obamacare, which would take away health care for some 20,000,000 people, and have no replacement ready then have the gall to say on TV you are doing more for people's health care than dems are.


    And, this:

    "I am hard pressed to identify any Trump decisions during my White House tenure that wasn't driven by reelection considerations" --Bolton

    How do dems know that is true? We know it's true, because THAT is who Trump is.

    Trump asked the Chinese president help him win reelection. That's what Bolton said, can we believe it?

    Of course we can believe it, Bolton, though he isn't someone I would hire for the job he was hired to do if I were president, but he's not going put forth a bold lie like that if he couldn't back it up. This president has no respect for the Constitution and the rule of law, and to him, laws and dignity are an inconvenience .



    It's probably because no president prior to this one would have criticized his opponent for all of their golfing, and as soon as he took office, started gollfing more than his opponent, and billing the American taxpayer hundreds of millions all of which went directly into his hotels which he didn't put in a blind trust.


    You want to be a liberals friend? Then understand their loathing, and their loathing is NOT done in a vacuum.

    What I find amazing is that you can't understand it. It's mind boggling is that guys like you are in such denial.

    I'm sorry, there's no way in hell you and I could ever be friends.

    IF Bush were president we could, if Reagan were president, we could, but with this president, sorry, there's just no way in hell a friendship is possible because to us, guys like him are a enabling him, and he poses and existential threat to this nation. I'm talkin 5 alarm fire here.

    You just don't see it, and it's sad.

    Read Rick Wilson's two books ( he's a conservative ). I could easily be friends with Rick Wilson, but not you.
     
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  15. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    People "can't agree on anything" but that was the case under Nixon, George W Bush and Obama. No one man is ever responsible for everything.

    Anyway Democrats supported some of Trump's criminal law reforms and the recent stimuli. We are in a civil war but not of Trump's making.
     
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  16. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    What? In the first place that was before he was president, and secondly conservatives have more moral objections to adultery than liberals. Thirdly, everyone has moral failings (other than you, of course) and fourth that's very old news, and fifth I don't even know that it's true.

    So you are illustrating my point quite well.
     
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  17. Shook

    Shook Well-Known Member

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    Bolton should have pursued a career making TV commercials for chili con carne. He would today to be chili what the Marlboro man was to cigarettes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  18. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    You truncated my comment. Adultery wasn't the point, doing it to a newly wed wife just after she gave birth......

    that was the point. It doesn't matter when he did such a thing, but he did it twice and paid $280K to cover it up.

    Name one president that did that.
     
  19. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    It definitely got worse under Obama, and that, too, was the fault of people on the right (and the Russians who helped push them off the deep end).

    You can be in a civil war if you like. I have no desire for one and would much rather see people settle the **** down and get back to reality. Unplugging from social media and the endless hype and fake news online might do them some good, but I suppose that's as likely as a million smokers quitting all at once.
     
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  20. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    No, it was not like that under the others you cited. Only the far right lives in a world of dreams that do not exist.
     
  21. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  22. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    It was wrong if it happened. I don't know what you're even arguing about.

    But how far do you take this denunciation? Should Trump be allowed to hold any job? If he cleans toilets at McDonalds, should the customers boycott McDonald's? Why not? You're going to eat where a bad person works? And don't say you don't eat at McDonalds. The point stands.
     
  23. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Your straw arguments are silly, Le Chef. Trump is a bad man, an incompetent CEO, and awful President who threatens us all.
     
  24. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's about character, and a man who would fornicate with a pornstar, and then a playboy playmate just after his newly wed wife gave birth, his morals are far below what should be expected of a President.

    Moreover, I said my comment was truncated, and that wasn't the only issue. There were more issues and the rebuttal didn't reflect what I wrote.
    The rest of your comment is a strawman and nonsequitur we are talking about the Office Of The President Of The United States.
     
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  25. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    Pretty judgmental. We all fall short. And you're STILL talking about his pre-political life. Anyway , nobody says you have to vote for him, so don't.

    As for people who do vote for him, many recognize Trump's flaws but object more to the nanny state and centralization of government from afar that every Democrat supports.

    Would you vote for Trump if he had never committed a sin in his life? Or would policy issues matter?
     
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