Corona Virus Update

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by HereWeGoAgain, Mar 12, 2020.

PF does not allow misinformation. However, please note that posts could occasionally contain content in violation of our policies prior to our staff intervening. We urge you to seek reliable alternate sources to verify information you read in this forum.

  1. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    Messages:
    44,681
    Likes Received:
    12,448
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Good post. COVID-19 isn't going away. There would be nothing more powerful than a principled fight for social justice while pushing government to protect public health. They're inextricably linked in this country.

    It will be difficult for those organizing BLM protests to share power with those fighting the pandemic. I keep seeing protest organizers saying they will continue street protests until they get what they want. That would be a huge political error.
     
    Eleuthera likes this.
  2. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    Messages:
    44,681
    Likes Received:
    12,448
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not if we beat down the virus as they have in British Columbia.

    551C1437-FF04-43E9-AF80-99C3CCC22006.jpeg

    In all of British Columbia (5m people), there are fifteen hospitalized COVID-19 patients and four of them in an ICU.

    I remember seeing the provincial health officer saying we were not only going to "bend the curve" but we were going squash it. With that as the hope, people kept their distance when out for exercise and you see the result above.

    Vancouver is the fourth densest city in North America and 60% of BC residents live in the greater Vancouver metropolitan area. In short, BC has been able to beat down COVID-19 despite an area of the city that has NYC density.

    [​IMG]

    In the BC health region that includes the uber dense area you see above, this is the situation with COVID-19.

    55FE1B0F-16BF-4257-95E4-FAF2BD83162D.jpeg

    Six people in hospital, half in the ICU. The message to us ... we can control the virus in even our densest communities if we socially distance.

    We let our situation go out-of-control and I blame Trump for much of the problem.
     
    fiddlerdave likes this.
  3. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Tokyo, Bangkok, Seoul, Taipei, etc .. all have very dense cities, and managed to suppress the virus very effectively. Korea and Japan did it without strict lock-downs, just like America. Further, Japan and SK had the same challenges as America - densely populated cities, lots of apartment dwellers, a cold northern winter, etc.

    Removing all politics from the equation, for the sake of the exercise, Japan and Korea would still be way ahead of America. So much of how we respond to this thing comes down to behaviour, and Americans simply don't behave the way they need to in a pandemic.
     
    fiddlerdave likes this.
  4. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    Messages:
    44,681
    Likes Received:
    12,448
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Think about who we're addressing. I brought up Australia, New Zealand, and British Columbia because they're a similar culture to the U.S. Many Americans can't imagine learning something from South Korea, Japan, or Taiwan.
    I think with the right leadership they could be persuaded to do the right thing, even now.
     
    ronv likes this.
  5. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Perhaps a lack of distancing
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So how would the right leadership persuade them? I'm just not convinced. I think there's a huge cultural barrier to compliance.
     
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I get that, but why?

    Why are they particularly resistant?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
  8. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gosh I have no idea except they are a sociable culture .
     
  9. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    Messages:
    44,681
    Likes Received:
    12,448
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think the noncompliance is the result of propaganda. I guess we'll never know.
     
  10. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Haven't Americans pretty much always been all about rights and freedoms, etc?

    Either way, I suspect that the global response to COVID, which encompasses every iteration of politics imaginable, affirms that it has nothing to do with politics. It's a combination of strong leaders + compliant populace, and that can happen in any political model, under any 'type' of leader. Strength isn't partisan, nor is a compliant populace. America was probably doomed either way .. given the populace was not on board. Might have been less of an emphatic surrender under a stronger leader, but without the people fully on board .... doomed. Or it could have been worse under a stronger leader .. given potential for mass resistance to what would have been seen as a kind of totalitarian overreach.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
  11. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,379
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    An odd and rather peculiar question. How many PF threads have acquired 205 pages and over 5000 replies?
     
  12. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fair enough. Seems odd to put your socialising ahead of the safety of your loved ones, though.
     
  13. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    5,448
    Likes Received:
    4,075
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fake News, nothing was released or unveiled i
    It is the leadership. If you start out the crisis, by down playing it and than joking about it and than atacking governors from the opposit party and than going into voodoo medicine and than and than and than, just to keep the base happy.
    That all does not work. There was never a effort by Bunker Boy to unify the country in the effort to beat this virus.

    Yes I know it get tiresome, but Mutti set down with the Governors and they are from 4 different Parties, one is from the Linke, her Party refuses to talk to the Linke, it did not matter, because everybody is in on this crisis and it is all about the country and people.
    This never happened in the US, the opposite happened.
    This is why we see the resurgent.
    People just do not understand and still think it is the flue
     
  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure, Trump failed big time. But how would the public have responded to the much tougher lockdowns seen in New Zealand, Vietnam, Greece, etc? You think they would have just complied? You're talking about Americans, remember ... people very wedded to the idea of their own invincibility, and very very wedded to their 'freedoms'. That's a dangerously hubristic combination, and we're seeing the fruit of that in the numbers.

    PS: As regards Trump's failure. Our own leader was initially very wishy washy, and looked like being way too complacent - but we the people did what needed to be done anyway. It's the 21stC - all of us had access to the same global information. We all knew exactly what was needed, and how to behave. If we then simply chose to sit around waiting for Govt to take it seriously, we are as complicit as those inept leaders.
     
  15. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    5,448
    Likes Received:
    4,075
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I live in the US. I the leadership would have addressed the people accordingly, the US could have pulled that of. But the Leader did not do that.
    First you have to bring your own people into the boat, which never happened and than you bring the others into the boat, which never happened.
    Just look around this forum, how many of the Bunker Boys think it is a hoax, the flue, a conspiracy to destroy the US economy and Bunker Boy, figures wrong and so on and so on.
    But those CTs were put out by Bunker Boy and his right wing supporting media, from day one. He had a chance to stop it and unite the US behind the cause. He did not do it, he split the US and jumped on every CT possible. Especially his followers are prone to fall for what ever CT, which comes around.
    Again just read this forum.
    He had the power to do it, but choose different, for personal gains and not wanting to be responsible.

    We the people, if mobilized, are a unstoppable power, but it never happened..
    Yes your Leader was like Trump, but ones he got the message he changed and got the country behind him and thats why Australia is doing so good. Yours turned out to be a leader for the country and its people, in this crisis.
    Ours protected his own vanity and base and is destroying the country.
     
    Sallyally, ronv and Montegriffo like this.
  16. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I doubt it. I think a stronger leader would have been resisted horribly. I suspect that there would have been far worse riots than you're seeing now, but in response to harsh lockdowns.

    Actually, that's not exactly what happened in Australia. THE PEOPLE voluntarily reached 80% compliance with protocols before it was mandatory (it went up to around 90% after). We did it while the leader was still trying to please the business community by staying 'soft'. He came on board after we'd already put ourselves into isolation. Kids had already been taken out of schools, people were staying home, few were using public transportation, etc etc.
     
  17. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We would have been fine here if trump had shown leadership and appealed to science and logic. That would have allowed for far greater efforts to contain this without people going bonkers. But instead he made medicine about politics. Following sound medical advice is viewed as weak and liberal by his supporters. It is the stupidest thing I've ever seen in this country.

    Trump is the reason for this. 90% of it was avoidable and manageable with proper leadership.

    It is important to understand that trump has destroyed this country. He has torn it apart and replaced logic and science with spin, stupidity and conspiracy theories. He has replaced patriotism with nationalism and authoritarianism; fear mongering and hate. This all could have been vastly different.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
    gnoib likes this.
  18. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump leveraged twenty years of brainwashing by the RW media; especially Talk Radio and the Fox propaganda channel.

    The Fox propaganda channel has its origins in concept in the Nixon administration.
     
  19. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    Messages:
    44,681
    Likes Received:
    12,448
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, not really. Consider Prohibition, the "war on drugs," laws banning abortion, movie censorship, Jim Crow, and on and on.
    I don't find Australians particularly compliant types, yet they've quite neatly beaten back COVID-2.
    I think Trump and the way the American democracy operates is the problem.
     
  20. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    Messages:
    16,319
    Likes Received:
    10,027
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  21. Richard Franks

    Richard Franks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2019
    Messages:
    4,626
    Likes Received:
    1,474
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The Coronavirus I regret to announce is going to be like it was in March in possibly a few months and the number will rise and there won't be much to stop it.
     
  22. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    Messages:
    8,382
    Likes Received:
    2,556
    Trophy Points:
    113
    [​IMG]

    WASHINGTON — Less than a month after President Trump urged churches to reopen, West Virginia has reported a significant number of coronavirus outbreaks linked to houses of worship. According to the state’s public health office, a total of five churches have seen outbreaks.

    Those churches are scattered across the rugged, mountainous state. The affected churches are in Jefferson County on the border with Maryland; Boone County, in the state’s southwestern coalfields, not far from the Kentucky border; Hampshire County, also near the Maryland border; and Marshall County, in a narrow swath of the state squeezed between Ohio and Pennsylvania known as the Northern Panhandle.

    The state’s Department of Health and Human Resources announced the five-church outbreak in a Saturday press release about a house of worship in Greenbrier County, where it said “at least 17 cases have been identified.” It did not name the Greenbrier church, or the churches in the other four counties, to “protect the possibility of identifying individuals.”

    On Monday, health officials said that there had been eight church-related cases in Hampshire County, seven in Boone County and five each in Jefferson and Marshall counties. Speaking at a press conference on Monday, West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice revealed that the outbreak in Greenbrier County was at Graystone Baptist Church in Lewisburg. And he said that the number of cases there had risen to 28.

    State health officials told Yahoo News that the infected churchgoers had themselves infected an additional 26 people, so that the total number of people who had contracted the coronavirus either directly or indirectly because of the worship services was now 79. “DHHR is monitoring any increase in COVID-19 cases with coordination from the local health department,” said Allison Adler, director of communications for the Department of Health and Human Resources. She said that the West Virginia National Guard was assisting in the response, including by helping clean the five churches.

    https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/west-virginia-sees-coronavirus-outbreaks-in-churches-200854506.html
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  23. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are you sure it's exclusively a Trump problem, and not an American problem? I don't argue that the man isn't a freaking disaster in an emergency, but what is it about American society that makes you think there'd have been unified willingness to comply at 80%+?. Indications suggest that the fundamentals needed for that kind of unity are missing. And Stats also mentioned trust in Govt. Without that, it's pretty dang difficult to get 80% on board anything, much less the drastic measures needed in a pandemic.
     
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We're somewhere between America, and Asia .. in that regard. We have influence from both. We definitely like our space and privacy, but don't expect to be able to do whatever the hell we want and society be damned.
     
  25. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    Messages:
    44,681
    Likes Received:
    12,448
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Until Trump, Americans didn't think they could do as they damn well pleased, either.
     

Share This Page