That statue in England that ended up in the bay?

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by JakeStarkey, Jun 13, 2020.

  1. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    speculation. slavery in the americas was a racial thing though, that is what was unique about it.
     
  2. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    The prosperity of both America and most of Britain came from the blood money of slavery.
    What is the problem with admitting that?
    In Britain reparations to those that lost financially due to abolition only finished being paid off in 2015.
     
  3. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Not reparations.
    Compensation to slave owners for the loss of their valuable property.
    It is disgusting that huge amounts of money were paid out to the slave owners while not a penny was paid to the former slaves for their mistreatment and loss of liberty.
     
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  4. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    yes but the point hes making is that those payments only ended 5 years ago, so the british public was essentially still paying off the slavers WHO DIED 200 YEARS AGO. so again, another precedent set, so long as it means financially compensating WHITE FOLK!
     
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  5. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    and lets not even get into the details about WHO exactly bankrolled this disgusting package, we can leave that for another day :hungry:
     
  6. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you.
    All taxes in countries that grew rich on slave trading blood money should be increased by 10-15% to begin to establish a reparation fund for the descendents of victims of slavery. Money would be very scant compensation but it would be a start.
     
  7. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's not quite that simple. The slave owners were paid off at the time.
    What we have just finished paying off are the loans that were taken to compensate the slave owners.
    Whilst those payments are abhorrent, at the time they were a necessary part of passing anti-slave laws through Parliament.
    I'm appalled that a portion of the taxes I've paid in my lifetime have gone to repay those loans but I understand the historical context.
    Given the choice between abolishing slavery and paying compensation or doing neither, I would do the same again. It's not much of a choice but it is the only choice they were offered.
    Nor would I want to pay reparations to the descendants of slaves.
    I think the best thing we can do now is to refuse to see colour, we should only see people and we should be judged by what we say and do not on the melanin content of our skins.
     
  8. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And slavery in Rome was a racial thing.
    And slavery in Turkey was a racial thing
    And slavery in Aztec and Inca societies was a racial thing.

    We are told "There is no such thing as race" but then that
    the people we don't like a "racists." I don't even know what
    that word means anymore - it's just like "sexist" - can mean
    whatever you wan it to mean.

    And if we are going to beat ourselves because we had
    slaves (remember, slaves were popular in Africa) then why
    don't Japanese children beat themselves about Pearl Harbor
    and the Nanking massacre?
     
  9. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But we are told that if we he's black and she's a woman it's sexist and has
    nothing to do with the person. It's one thing one time, something else the
    next.
     
  10. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    so slavery in rome was racially based but there is also no such thing as race. make your mind up next time.
     
  11. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    told by whom?
     
  12. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    When the scheme to pay reparations to British slavers was set up it was the equivalent of 20% British GDP.
    A fund to compensate descendents of slaves could be set up where, say, 25% of annual British GDP might be a beginning of what would be needed.
    Even then it would be a drop in the ocean compared to the slavery blood money that built the British Empire.
     
  13. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Where does it end?
    I want my reparations from Italy for the massacre of the Iceni.
    Where's the money from Norway and Denmark for the atrocities carried out by their Viking raiders?
    What about those bloody Normans who came over here and stole our Anglo-Saxon lands?
    Talking of the Anglo-Saxons, isn't it time they paid up for what they did to the Celtic tribes?
     
  14. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    If you can't recognise the money driven industrial nature of the organised slave trade indulged in by the British and others, and the continuing fall out and how it differs from for example the Vikings then that's your problem.
    Of course people now don't like the idea of paying out for the crimes of their forefathers, then again men women and children captured and bred for slavery in the past didn't like it either.
    To ask where does it all end is the typical response of rich racists.
     
  15. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By several generations of young, bright, educated and liberal people.
    Then - Don't mention their gender or skin color.
    Now - gender and skin color are identity, treasure it, weaponize it.
     
  16. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    true, im just playing the same game as the msm, it works.
     
  17. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    thing with reparations is you have to deal with each case at a time. you just throwing a whole bunch of random stuff at us is not helping.
     
  18. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My point exactly. Liberals say "There's no such thing as race"
    and then if you don't like open borders or "affirmative action"
    then you are "racist."
    It's liberals who can't make up their mind.
     
  19. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    baby steps
     
  20. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    iagree but sadly it was written into law by american slavers, race was a legal definition used to oppress a particular group, generation upon generation. that never happened in rome, it happened in america, it was invented in america by white slavers.
     
  21. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    I think the notion of race in this context was invented by the British traders and taken up by Americans.
     
  22. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was watching a documentary on this recently. One of the main reasons why Britain went ahead with ending slavery was because the slave owners were beginning to see that is was not that profitable. Our slaves were kept under such oppressive conditions that on one place they mentioned only one child had ever been born among them.

    Obviously it also goes with the humanity of Parliament, whether they were able to see that these were human beings not just property including pets. Something had happened which got Parliament ready to vote against slavery and Wilberforce was sure it would happen...but...a new opera or something was on and half of the people expected to ban slavery saw it as more important to see that rather than vote.

    So then it was just the rich who ran Parliament and insufficient number of them had humanity. Money was the important thing to them and they believed these slave traders and owners were excellent entrepreneurs - that argument has also been used to suggest we should still honour them with statues.

    This way of life has brought money but it has brought the most inhumane treatment of others, the mass killing of millions in wars and the virtual destruction of our planet. It was built by inhumanity or as Jung was taught b y the America Indians by the white man going mad and thinking with his head not his heart.

    The people who had been slaves on British Plantations suffered enormously when they were released. Now if you had said they also had to give some kind of compensation with the people who were slaves there might be something in that. As it was it was just them using the working people of this country to fill the houses of the plantation owners. They were doing the same then as they are now, socialism for the rich, capitalism for everyone else.

    In the US they did things quite differently. They did give the slaves compensation - land belonging to the previous landowners and they did take on the responsibility to make sure they had the possibility to get started on a free life. Funnily enough just the other day I heard a black American saying that he thought one of the reasons whites in the US were unable to accept blacks was because unlike the British they did not pay off they slave owners who hence had massive aminosity towards blacks resulting in Jim Grow Ku Klux Clan and 'white supremacy' - a long standing fear of black people being able to manage better then themselves which does not even yet seem to have been ended.

    I doubt if anywhere has the effect of slavery and racism been so bloodily and inhumanely dealt with as in the US.
     
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  23. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    for sure but those very british were what would become the americans.
     
  24. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do you go on about "white slavers" ?
    They are no different to black slavers or Arab slavers.
    In Africa unwanted slaves were given to the lions.

    And when slavery happen? 1700's, 1800's ?
    Didn't the Republican Party fight to stop this?
    Didn't half a million die in the process?
    Could you get another 400 years of grievance out of this?

    The group least likely to be shot by police in America are
    Japanese. They don't go on about how they were interned,
    or their cities burned to the ground. They are busy getting
    an education, running businesses and helping make their
    new country wealthy.
     
  25. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, it was invented when the first two groups of humans met who
    were not closely related.
    Slavery in Africa and Arab world was quite racist - even to their
    white slaves. Perhaps Americans should go after people of Arabic
    descent and hound them over white slave trading? No? That would
    be 'racist' for sure. Different for whites though.
     

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