QUESTIONS for this forum:

So, enlighten us to your conclusions then ....

 

Who is inflating death counts?
I mean it is a bit hard to fudge death counts - you either have more dead people than this time last year or you don’t and if you have more dead then something has to have killed them

unless you want to stand among the group trying to insist that all those people just suddenly died all at the same time of other causes

 

I know 2 people who got COVID/ both are in their mid-40s and were in good health.
My friend owns a business downtown tested positive & became moderately ill...wasn't hospitalized & is back to normal.
Her husband got it and was hospitalized for a few weeks. He is home now but with minor lingering effects. Coughing etc...

 

I live and work in a populous (for WI) liberal controlled county where covid is "running rampant" and I'm one of the few in the main city that I shop in who doesn't wear a mask anywhere. I have yet to knowingly contract covid (unless I never developed any symptoms).

I question the presentation that the media spoon feeds people. "Cases have spiked", "cases have doubled", "___ new cases", etc... Mathematics can easily be fiddled around with to suit any agenda. "Doubled" could simply mean up from 4 cases to 8 cases. Cases "spiking" one day might be an outlier in an otherwise downward trend. Death "with" covid is not equivalent to death "because of" covid.

Many people take way too many things presented to them for granted and don't question what they are being told. That's what happened with the "Bubba Wallace" story about the "noose" in his NASCAR garage which everyone immediately ran with and made a big spectacle of, yet it simply turned out to be a garage door rope with a simple loop knot at the end of it for one's hand to go through to pull the door down. Yet lefties in this thread wonder why I might "mistrust" what the media tells me (yes, that includes the "dreaded" FOX News).

 

Care to whine about the fabricated lies of leftist media outlets? Or is the "confirmation bias" that our friend Bowerbird mentioned rearing its ugly head up?

A citation is not a proof.

 

This gets into another thing... Many lefties that I talk to seem to think that all "right-wingers" (which, to them, usually means anyone who isn't a "radical leftist") ADORE and only watch FOX News.

Speaking as a solid conservative, I do not watch FOX News at all (outside of a select few clips of Tucker Carlson on YouTube). I've watched MUCH more "liberal" news outlets than I have watched "conservative" news outlets. I do follow some conservative leaning YouTubers, however...

In other words, I dig deeper into alternative news sources in addition to what I happen to hear on the mainstream media news outlets. I didn't run with the "hate crime against Bubba Wallace" story right away (I mistrust MSM, you see) and turns out that the "noose" was really just a garage door pull with a loop knot at the end of it.

 

My "conclusions" go far beyond the anecdotal stories of this thread.

 

Glad they both recovered. Seems like one had a worse time than the other though.

 

It's quite clear he can do any science better than any scientist, or all of them together.

Or...something else entirely.

 

So.....when will they be published?
Are you submitting them for peer review?

 

Conflating one thing with another

and you wonder why “lefties” think “righties” cannot think scientifically

just because you yourself have not been affected by the virus does not mean you won’t be or you haven’t been infected

I gather, since you are admitting to not wearing a mask, that you are also not wearing a mask when visiting those who may be at risk?

 

He also missed the point of the mask, which is to protect others from you.

 

Not all illness are equally dangerous. And distanciation doesn't means being locked up. Wear a mask, wash your hands after every manipulation and stay 6 feet apart from others and you'll be fine.

You do know that your silly game you're presently playing is just that, silly. Your whole point with this thread of yours is a big appeal to incredulity fallacy.

 

I brought it up when posters appeard to have false information that correlated with what the liars at Fox were pumping and when it was pretty clear that people were not looking for answers beyond anecdotes.

There are counts of cases by highly reputable organizations using a variety of methods.

There really isn't any significant deviation between the various organizations who work on this until you start questioning how many cases and deaths have missed being counted by dying outside of hospitals or who have had other conditions with the standard questions of which condition actually polished off the victim or who recovered on their own, etc.

Another important point here is that a major issue is whether COVID is increasing or decreasing. For that, the raw numbers are of less interest than holding to one methodology and seeing how that changes over time.

Thus, spending time throwing unsubstantiated accusations at Worldmeter is just plain stupid.

If you have a known fault with it, then STATE it.

 

The science is a prefectly valid identifier contrasting with the opinion, the religion, or whatever.

And, reading totally unsbustantiavle anecdotes on the internet has NOTHING AT ALL to do with "digging deeper".

Nor is there a clear justification for that to be part of science - unless it is studying the behavior of people posting stuff on the internet, or whatever.

 

You're making an accusation for which you have NO EVIDENCE.

That's no better than ad hom.

 

A citation allows for investigation.

A citation is a step TOWARD truth.

 

I just used Worldometer as an example. I have had progressives tell me local health departments aren’t reliable sources of information but now you claim without evidence Worldometer is. But local health departments are where they get their data. See the problem here? And now you are using the term “stupid” to describe something I have not done. I’ve never claimed Worldometer data is inaccurate. You are making that up.

I actually have quite a bit of faith in such data sources. I use Worldometer often. I have enjoyed using this source as well.
https://www.cnn.com/resources/coronavirus-information
Incidentally, I’ve been able to verify it’s accuracy locally using anecdotal information. Since my world is low population close knit communities, anecdotal data precedes statistics like CNN’s tracker. I know Dennis’s mother’s funeral is Wednesday and she died of C19 so I expect her to show up as the first reported death in that county on the CNN site at some time in the next several days. Same for when a friend posts on Facebook the hospital he runs discharged the last C19 patient, I can verify that information when it shows up on CNN.

Bias is going to exist everywhere. That’s why it’s important to gather information from everywhere and use our brains to come to conclusions, not just constantly appeal to authority. That’s why many here are always behind the curve. For example, you were led around like a hog with a ring in its nose by government on the mask issue. You were told you didn’t need them. Then you were told you did. Now you want to mandate them.

On the other hand, we have many people who knew a global pandemic was a very real possibility and also knew masks would be useful in how they prepared for a pandemic. These people had supplies of N95 and/or better mask options on hand and were able to use them when appropriate from the beginning while you had to vacillate between opposite positions based on appeal to authority. And now, when that authority admits to dishonesty your faith in them is still implicit.

We went through the same thing with ventilators as with masks. Governors continuing to use them as political weapons and wasted resources on them long after the evidence showed less should be used, not more. Yet you still hung on every word those governors said. Not surprisingly, those on PF who appeal to authority hung in there with the governors in opposition to the evidence until the “proper/approved” authorities told them to change their position. Authorities known to be untruthful in the past.

I find it very interesting you now admit to using the anecdotal information of posters to verify your biases with Fox and to see if reality matches up with reporting. Essentially you’ve perfectly made my point. Yet you seem upset those posters were possibly doing the same thing you just admitted to.

I’m not arguing political sides here. I’m simply trying to get people to think instead of choosing arbitrary authorities with known histories of bias and untruthfulness to follow blindly.

 

??

So, why did you pick Worldometer??

Why didn't you pick a case (such as Fox) where it is well known that those with a partisan viewpoint were LYING?

Yes, people need learn how to dig deeper, but your comments had NO relevance in how that might be accomplished.

 

Why not? I don’t think we should accept any source unconditionally.

I did. I mentioned NBC, government entities, governors, and media in general. Clearly you are hung up on Fox and I’m not sure why. Why would I jump straight to Fox when I’m not familiar with their content. Remember me stating that?

Really? You still can’t see the value of anecdotal evidence after admitting using it to base your opinions on—even basing your criticism of this thread on your personal use of anecdotal information? You still don’t see the danger in the lies of authorities you like? You still don’t see the value in thinking things through for yourself? LOL.

 

I've already published them.

They've been peer-reviewed.

A publication that has been peer-reviewed is not science nor does publishing nor peer reviewing "make holy" any theory... I've already explained this countless times.

 

Conflating what with what? Void Argument Fallacy. Fallacy Fallacy.

Bigotry Fallacy. Buzzword Fallacy.

Already said this, even in the very comment that you're responding to. Do try to keep up.

EVERYONE is "at risk". And yes, I also do not wear a mask when visiting friends/family members.

 

Masks do not protect the wearer nor others around the wearer. Masks do not stop viruses, even when properly worn/fitted, and many masks wearers do not properly wear/fit their masks.

 

Correct.

Nope. None of that stops viruses. In fact, all that is doing is weakening your immune system.

I'm not playing any games.

Fallacy Fallacy. I've already explained the point of this thread.

 

There is no "the science". Just "science".

Yes it does.

Never have I ever claimed that this thread is or ought to be "science". At least address the arguments that others are making instead of making schiff up about them. I know that this has been an issue with our correspondence in the past.

... only if such a theory is falsifiable.

Remember, science is a set of falsifiable theories that describe nature.