Is the US transitioning to Roman Empire 2?

Many parallels can be drawn between events of last couple of decades to the fall of Roman republic and transition to empire.
A very vocal minority is wrecking chaos on society and it’s beginning to look like traditional conversation about politics is becoming impossible.
If we start getting uprisings and one general takes it upon himself to fix our problems then we’ll have a dictatorship that can very well turn into monarchy, and considering the fire power the US has, that will mean a lot of wars, new conquests and new colonization.
Roman republic made it just barely longer than 300 years. The US seems to be embroiled by radicalism which makes it impossible for traditional democratic institutions to function. The conflict is persistently getting worse and at some point we might find ourselves in a country where one side of politics can’t even make an argument without being physically attacked.
It is beginning to look like solving the problem meaningfully might involve violence and suspension of constitution which might never be restored again. Mass media must be purged of the radicals, but I cannot see how this could be done without suspending 1st amendment. Many anarchists, while individually commit relatively small crimes, when they do it en masse, they cause massive disturbance and the only way to deal with them is by using capital punishment or very long prison sentences, something that Trump is already implementing.

What is your vision of the US 100 years from now?

 

The US will keep chugging along. We will no longer be the leader of the world, but I don't see that as a problem. Nor should any of the folks who want other countries to pay their fair share in defense. We might see new parties arise - ones that will actually be in contention for leadership. And the constitution will still be in place.

 

The problem is that democracy works if most citizens are willing to abide by the rules. With the rise of the radicals, we are beginning to have a lot of people who are willing accept the rule of law only if a person of their liking is running the country.
If radical right starts to act the way radical left is acting we will find ourselves in a constant state of anarchy and no matter who you elect, the anarchy won’t stop. We might hit a point where someone solves the problem in a dictatorial fashion. And that’s what I’m afraid of.

 

Aren't we a bit lacking in the EMPIRE department????

 

In Historical science, the Roman Republic is dated from 509 B.C. to 27 B.C., that's 482 years. So, if one wants to use this analogy, the US still has 238 years left. Using this analogy, however, doesn't really make an awful lot of sense. Concerning the rest, these are extremely tumultuous times for the US with an almost dysfunctional administration and hardly anything looking even remotely "united." We'll see what happens in the near future.

 

That would be true if these protests were about Trump - or the leader of the country. But they aren't. But hey, you are more than welcome to protest all you want come November!

 

I don't think it's really possible to make realy forecast. I don't think that you're going from a period of transition but more of collapse. I see similiarities with the roman history, but not around the transition to the empire but more at the very end of the roman empire.

I don't see any way the USA could survive. Most of my observations are valid for the whole western world.
Factories, well, you have very few of them. Most of them are in the third world country. Still some, but few. Most of the economy of USA is around tertiary service. The biggest companies of the US provide really few "real services". Instagram, Facebook, they're not necessary for the survival of a country, far from it, I thing they're even harmful even if they produce some value for the good old GDP.

From my point of view, the collapse of the USA (and with the USA a large part of the developped world) can't be avoided. Among major reasons there is :
_ All contempary economy is based on the consumption of fossile fuels. Global GDP and level of consumption of fossile fuels are directly linked. Renewable energy don't slow down the consumption of oil, they just stack with them and so they will never substitute to oil. Half of those energies have been consumed and the rest is less easily usable.
_ From a financial point of view, the USA is full of debt. From the private level but also government.
_ Contemporary american and western economic is heavily sided toward tertiary economy. The thing is : in case of economic recession, it's the less vital. It's better to have first and secundary sector as they produce the vital good. The strength of the USA is that you have a huge territory that have a lot of natural richness, but even american agriculture is heavily dependant of importations of fertilizer and pesticide : the USA isn't that much protected against famine.
_ You want to know the future of a country look at his youth : the picture isn't optimistic. Not only the USA had fewer babies than ever, but I red in some books that millenials was the first generation that got a lower IQ than the precedent, to that we could add that vocable tend to become less diverse over time. To add to that, there is high problem of obesity, and mental health isn't far better. So basically american youth is : not very bright (on average), obese, sterile and heavily in debt.
_ To that, we could add that political tensions have never been so high for a long time.

In short : you're already dead. The question isn't : Would the USA fall ? The question is : to which point ? For instance we could guess a partial fall that would lead to a lot of trouble but not for instance a disintegration of USA as a country, the worst could be a complete one.

I know that some people could get angry for what I says, I don't mean it as an insult and my point isn't to be mean. I don't pretend that my country (France) is more healthy, in fact,I suppose it's as much moribund.

 

You don't have to worry about insulting us, we disregard much of what Europe says and does right now.

 

I didn't knew I was the united consciousness of the 750 millions european inhabitants.

 

Regardless of outcome, it’s going to be dark times for Europe - if the US turns into empire, the emperor will be forcing Europe to dance to his tunes or face aggression from us. If the US collapses then the Europe is going to be dominated by the next largest military power - Russia.
I’m white and I wouldn’t want to live in Europe in the next 200 years. They literally have just 3 eventualities - being overrun by Middle East and Africa, being overrun by the US or being completely dominated, if not controlled, by Russia, and if Russia dares to challenge China, it’s going to be China.

 

What happens when the so called AG is blatantly flouting the rule of law?

And the other enormous problem is that the Congress refuses to begin impeachment proceedings on this corrupt SOB because both parties are corrupt but the Dems just a bit less.

 

And what does “so called AG” mean?
That’s exactly what I’m talking about - acceptance of rule of law only if your guy is in charge. With this attitude we won’t last for too long.

 

Did you not read my post? Am I mot holding BOTH parties accountable for not upholding The Constitution? or are you just looking to blindly argue?

 

And you don’t seem to understand, that’s it’s not “so called AG”, it’s a very real “AG”.
Once you accept that then make your argument.

 

Yeah...I got it...you are just looking for a confrontation. Maybe you will find a patsy for that but it ain't me. Have an interesting life.

 

You don’t seem to even understand that when you say “so called AG”, you are implying that someone is occupying the position illegally, therefore, no matter what that person does, it’s illegal by default. What kind of a discussion do you expect when right out of the box you indicate that you refuse to accept the appointment in the first place? No matter the argument one can try to make, you will always default to “so called ...”. How can you seriously discuss the actions of the appointee when you refuse to acknowledge that persons right to make any decision altogether?

 

Interesting OP - There are many parallels between the last military economic empires and today for sure - books such as - "Blood in the Streets -1987" - looks at these parallels - and this one even predicts future events based on past cycles in history. - and some of those predictions come true.- not by some crystal ball - but because history tends to repeat itself - in predictable ways.

Technical innovation leads to Military Superiority which leads to economic hegemony. On the way up the Empire expands at a rapid pace on the way up. Technology then spreads and the cost of projecting power increases - to the point where the ROI - return on investment - becomes negative and the empire starts to decline.

One example was the Brits and the gatling gun. With one gunship they could take over an Entire African nation - fighting back with sticks and stones. At some point that nation gets the gun - now you need not just one gunship - but an entire armada - casualties will be heavy and costs high.

We are at a similar juncture - the cost of these piddly regime change wars - with no ROI - is breaking the bank. God forbid we had to fight an enemy stronger than Libya, Taliban, Yemen.

At the same time - middle of the road powers such as Iran are getting the gun - "high tech weapons" such as cruise missile technology.

The above is one of many parallels.

The geopolitical chessboard has changed - Military is no longer the strongest piece on the board - economic is. We can not attack an nuclear power - so we are left with using conventional forces against smaller nations.

I agree we will keep chugging along - and still be one of the leading players on the board - but no longer the economic empire we once were.

The period of time can vary greatly so is not that relevant with respect to some parallels - more so with respect to others.

For example - the last 3 world economic empires (spanish dutch british) all went into major economic decline roughly 25 years after going off Gold. When there is no longer anything of intrinsic value backing the promise to pay written on a piece of paper - the restraints on Gov't spending are lifted - and so all these empires racked up huge debt - which - along with other factors - precipitated the decline.

We went off Gold in 1973 - The Constant dollar Peak of the Dow was in 2000. (we went 27 years ) beating the average but not by much.

It is true that around 2017 after the Trump Bump the Dow - after 17 years - finally made a new constant dollar high - albeit on the back of massive deficit spending. Call that "The Crest of the Tidal Wave" - Corona exposed some weakness and we are now back under water.

 

There indeed some parallels between Rome and the US. I had occasionally expressed that same thought.

Your opinion is very good, logical, and written with fairness. Where I would quibble with you is your painting the entire media, you obviously are excluding Fox, as being radical. Yet you offer nothing as a foundation for your accusation supporting your claim that the media is radical. You say that the media " must be purged of the radicals". You are forgetting or ignoring history. A guy named Adolf claimed that by arresting and putting anyone he saw as speaking up or telling the truth into perpetual prison camps and then death camps he will restore order out of the chaos that gripped Germany. That was called Nazism, remember?

Another guy arrested millions who he claimed committed crimes such as telling the truth, being "enemies of the state", striking, asking for mimimum food allotment , being religious, or of a certain ethnic group into prisons called Gulags. That was called Stalinism, remember.

Stalin had his Beria as that empir's top cop . Trump has Barr as the make believe Atttorney general. The eunuchs surounding Stalin cheered him on to rule with "an iron hand" aka "stahl" steel ! Stalin's Barrs wants a supreme all strong "executive". Barr and certain Supreme Court justices and Senators and Congressmen want a strong executive ignoring Congree the courts and the will of the people. That is called dictatorship maybe not in name but for all practical,purposes.

Hitler had Goebels Trump has Barr, Jim Jordan, Mitch , and Shaun Hannity and Kelly Anne as his propaganda troopers.

You say with what I perceive as glee that Trump is already implementing capital punishment and long prison sentences" . Care what


You seem to want to save our country our democracy but you call for the wannabe dictor to be an actual dictator.
Please remember what Benjamin Frankin told a group of citizens when asked what the Constitutional delegates created his answer was.............A REBUPLIC, IF YOU CAN KEEP IT"

We will not keep our Republic using the actions of a Hitler or a Stalin.

I want to keep our Republic do you?

 

The US will not be a super power in 100 years. Our society has become corrupt and it can't stay that way much longer.

 

He must mean by so called that Barr is not performing his duties as an AG and therefore not performing the functions of AG as the country needs an AG to perform the duties of his office.

 

The AG is supposed to be the AG for the entire country the people not as Barr being Trump's personal defender. The AG is appointed by the president confirmed bybthevSenate but is supposed to work for the people.

 

Read this and tell me what you think:
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-news-media-is-destroying-itself

As for Fox - they are pretty far right, but they are outnumbered by left wing media - CNN, MSNBC, etc.
My grievance is more about the quality of information we receive, were people are being outright lied to by many mass media sources and where you can find truth by simply looking up someone’s quote themselves.
This partisanship in the media became so absurd, that every article became an opinion peace if evaluated by the standards from just 20 years ago.
What happened to reporting all facts and leave all personal opinion to Op-Ed section?

Yes I do, but looking at it from global perspective, I’d prefer to stay in the US even if it turns into a real empire. If it splits, I’d prefer to side with the south as their absurdities seem to be a lesser evil to me than absurdities the left was demonstrating in the last 4-5 years.

 

If the AG were to upset enough people, Congress would have enough votes to impeach the AG or any appointee. Therefore, the opposition does not seem to be as widespread as many like to claim.

 

That makes it even more scary that not enough people care that Yrump is a wannabe dictator and Barr is an enabler.

 

The Boston Tea Party was not a peaceful event.

The law will be respected when it is respectable.