Why statists hate capitalism

Under cover boss is dealing with quite small businesses probably well under a million a year in salary and the bosses in question are as often as not the owners. They are why most small businesses go broke in the first five years.

 

The view from the pit under the outhouse does limit you viewpoint, doesn't it?

 

Exactly right. Been to many shareholder meetings in Omaha, and the reason I make the trip is to listen to how the man thinks, better understand that capacity.
How good is he? You might think that the headquarters of such a vast empire would be huge- they employ close to 1/2 million, own near a hundred companies outright and have serious stakes in a great many more, have well over $100B on hand to buy new companies when they can find good ones. The staff at the Omaha HQ increased in size a couple years back- from 18 to 25. That is superb management.

 

Yep. You think automation are only robots.

 

Says the dude who thinks automation is only robots.

 

And I don't think you understand the difference between automation and mechanical processes like using a water wheel to turn a grindstone.

 

Definition of automaton

1: a mechanism that is relatively self-operating especially : ROBOT
2: a machine or control mechanism designed to follow automatically a predetermined sequence of operations or respond to encoded instructions
3: an individual who acts in a mechanical fashion

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/automaton

Note the use of the term, especially, note it doe NOT say exclusively.
Note the use of the term, machine. A water wheel can be a machine. The water automatically turns the wheel.
A computer algorithm can automate without being a robot.

 

Definition of Rational:
Rationality is the quality or state of being rational – that is, being based on or agreeable to reason. Rationality implies the conformity of one's beliefs with one's reasons to believe, and of one's actions with one's reasons for action.

Now you aren't so dim as to not understand that automation basically is mechanical devices taking the role of tool management over from humans, and performing complex synchronous and sequential functions. The water turns the wheel just as a hammer drives the nail and the nail fastens two boards together. Don't make yourself look foolish calling that automation.
And you know that your argument is made for the sake of argument to avoid reason- rational discussion with that objective of understanding.
Everyone else knows it too.

 

Bear in mind that I was right.

 

Until at least 1932 investment in much if anything by the federal government was extremely limited because government revenue was itself extremely limited.

 

I also talked about England...

That's just how the cookies crumbles.

 

England was throughout most of the nineteenth century a entirely different kettle from anywhere else in the world, thanks in no small part to the vast fortune Albert and Victoria had at their disposal. Probably the best monarchs to ever grace a country.

 

Like I said..

 

The tens of million dollar CEO is more valuable to the stockholders by far than any average Disney employee (who get paid much more than peanuts, but who's counting....) None-the-less CEO pay is far from a perfect system, not unlike any other system anywhere.

 

I hope I'm not getting off the track of this thread.

The role of government with capitalism is as it is with any societal system and that is to set the rules of operation. The other function of government is to get out of th way and not put up roadblocks that unnecessarily inhibit business, hence the interstate commerce clause in the Constitution. (Though the modern interpretation has been just the opposite of what the framers intended.)

Capitalism and government have hot really worked together in a synergistic sense. Government has tried to jump on the bandwagon often, as garyd points out, with disastrous results. Until modern times (from around the 1900s or so) private roads were much better built and run. Many states nearly went bankrupt in the 19th century trying to emulate the success of the Erie Canal. The few privately financed railroads were eminently more successful than the numerous government sponsored railroads. That was because the private railroads were built with a profit motive that succeeds only by satisfying the market while the government sponsored ones were built when the legislatures and congress and their crony capitalist buddies smelled a way to get rich without the bother of the hard work. Can't hardly wait for the federal government to take complete charge of medical care.

Involvement in education is neither capitalistic or socialistic but is probably necessary, though it is not clear if government run schools are better or worse on average than private schools. There has been R&D efforts that have helped business though that was not the original intent. Mostly government involvement in business is a hindrance, other than the necessary defining the rules of the game, which might also be a hindrance but without which business and capitalists would run amok.

The argument for government involvement or running business is simply the statist objective of controlling everything and everybody.

 

If that's the fantasy you want..

Historically, governments have had to do most of what they did. We can talk about things like the Intercontinental railroad in the 1800s, FDR's programs holding the country together. Or the way the Moon Program was profitable.

Yes, there were failures. Which ignores the thousands of successes.

 

Most government railroads were disastrous. FDR's programs kept the depression (which mostly Hoover started) going far beyond its time. The moon program was light years from profitable. However it was a big government success. Government has successes sometimes usually when they do things that private enterprise cannot do and are still very challenging, like go to the moon, have a military, sanction money, et al. It is when governments get heady and intoxicated and try to act like they know how to do regular things the private enterprise does -- build cars, trucks, buses, radios, TVs washers, dryers, ACs. etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum -- that they get their comeuppance. There was good reason for the interstate commerce clause in the Constitution which was for government to not interfere with private business and trade.

 

Those programs held the country together. Imagine going into WW2 if we hadn't had them.

If you look at the taxes we got, from the businesses that were a result, Apollo was profitable.

The reality is that this is a constant. Governments do most of the basic research that drug companies use to make new drugs, for example.

 

Monkeys have to be fed......machines and other innovations don't.

 

Thats corporatism. Capitalism combined with too much govt leads to govt being used as a weapon to stifle competition. It could also be called economic fascism.

 

WWII got us out of the depression and held the country together despite FDR's power grab programs.

True the government collected a lot of taxes from innovations done during the space program, but that tax revenue didn't come close to covering the moon program. Not even if you include the royalties the companies paid for the use of the innovations helps much.

Governments do a lot of basic science research but most is government purview, earth science and weather, military and nuclear science, for example. Some end up benefiting private business though the businesses pay for that use. The private drug companies, nit the government, are responsible by themselves for the preponderance of new drugs.

 

Well, if you don't count oil, more screws and nails, and better software, I suppose.

 

What do you think a paddle wheel designed to turn via running water over it. And the water is a river or some other moving water. Then that rotating wheel is generating work. That's automation.

No, I am not so dim. Are you? Can you be rational? You looked up the definition, so you should have some idea.

 

It's a bit better view than yours, the pit inside the outhouse. Better smelling also.

 

Well- I don't think you would find an engineer this side of la-la land to buy that, but if a more precise understanding of the difference eludes you- believe what you want.
Get tired of arguing with people who deny water is wet or that the earth is round. No purpose to it.