Maybe the bad news is good news

Discussion in 'Science' started by (original)late, May 26, 2020.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Good points.

    Can we really tell whether an asteroid that is actually in the asteroid belt will threaten earth? It seems like most candidates have taken a couple runs at us, demonstrating whether they may crash us at some future point.

    I hope what we need to do will tend to be a lot closer to earth.

    Maybe this will end up needing to be a whole Earth effort, as any one country that starts putting weapons of this capabilitly in space is likely to meet resistance.
     
  2. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    That was to make a point more than a literal solution. But, one of the more interesting concepts I've seen is to use a LASER to vaporize surface material on the approaching object. This would create a jet of vaporized ice or rock that would act as a little jet engine. Over a period of years it could deflect a typical object enough to miss us. But again, the devil is in the details.

    It really comes down to how much notice we have. If something comes directly at us quickly from behind the sun, we may not have time to do anything. It's time to party!

    But we might have 30 years or more to react. That gives us time to react with any of a variety of potential solutions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
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  3. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    space rocks only come around every 1000 years, it is a taxpayer scam to defend against them
     
  4. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    Rocks from Space hit us every day. Russian scientists are predicting Apophos will hit us in one of the the future passes, the next one happens in 2039.

    "It may be a decision in 2013 whether or not to go ahead with a full-blown mitigation mission, but we need to start planning it before 2013," said Prof Fitzsimmons. In 2029, astronomers will know for sure if Apophis will pose a threat in 2036. If the worst-case scenarios turn out to be true and the Earth is not prepared, it will be too late. "If we wait until 2029, it would seem unlikely that you'd be able to do anything about 2036," said Mr Yates.
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/dec/07/spaceexploration.research

    "The Sentry Risk Table estimates that Apophis would make atmospheric entry with 1,200 megatons of kinetic energy"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99942_Apophis#Possible_impact_effects

    The result depends a lot on where it hits. If it hits in the middle of Siberia, we would get crappy weather. If it hits the Atlantic,millions would die, and economies would be devastated. But there are places it could land that would end civilisation in the hempisphere it landed on. That means billions dead, and for the rest, a struggle to survive the 'nuclear winter'.

    One of the primary jobs of governments is managing risk. While the risk is not high, the danger is such that it would be extremely prudent to develop a means to deal with the problem, if the asteroid decides to get friendly.
     
  5. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking human's physiology has been determined by the typical environment that exists on Earth. We typically exist under a certain gravity, within a certain magnetic field, at certain temperatures, with certain types of light, a unique atmosphere, etc. The inherited characteristics most of us possess evolved on Earth and determined by the specific environments of Earth. If we transport a human from their native environment and give them exposure to very different environments, this might not go well. I cannot guess how long it would take an average human to adapt to different environments? Maybe several years, or 1000 years, or perhaps never? So bottom line; humans not only need to protect from hostile scenarios like radiation or toxic atmospheres, etc. but also the conflicts of exposing our well-evolved physiologies to new environments. The more we can recreate Earth's conditions in these new environments the better chances humans will have for long term success...
     
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  6. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    Our asteroid detection is not even close to where I want it to be, but it is getting better.

    The difficulty goes up exponentially as the rock gets close.

    Yeah, it really should be a multinational effort, shouldn't it?
     
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Agreed on all counts.

    Detection and tracking are a world wide effort with significant contribution from ESA and ESO.

    Beyond that, shooting impactors at asteroids (to move them away) and at pieces of space garbage (so they will reenter and burn up) are highly legitimate objectives that can mean technology that is totally usable against any object in Earth orbit.

    It's likely to look like the US "Space Force" is weaponizing space.

    We need to work this out with all nations, especially those with space capability.
     
  8. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol..We will be hit again the only question is when. We are not even close to defend against them..

    And you don't know when the next one will hit.
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It's just plain startling to me that the right wing seems so set against protecting America against pandemics that absoltuely will continue to hit.

    What the heck is the advantage they see in leaving America open to new attacks like COVID?
     
  10. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Right now I don't think man has much of a chance in space. We have to create an environment that man can survive and thrive in. This means developing ecosystems that can support man. And then there is this thing with gravity. I will admit that machines in space make much more sense right now. You have a much wider range of environments with machines. And much less death.
     
  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Humans have no chance away from Earth without artificial environments. Whether in space or colonizing another planet/moon, humans will require a duplication of Earth's biosphere. Surely humans when placed in harsh environments will perish...not allowing enough time for humans to possibly evolve in order to become more sustainable. I'm guessing it's very poor odds of finding another planet/moon with almost identical characteristics to Earth, and if so, this means humans away from Earth will require artificial environments...
     
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  12. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    3/4 of the world population live at or bellow the poverty line, don't have enough food or clean water and you want to waste money and ressources on a silly space station... How about we build water processing plant and invest in food producing tech to keep present people alive instead.
     
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  13. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    It is much more than food production..... easy by the way.... but distribution of resources. I would love to see more water processing plants. And ..... better yet.... water storage facilities like lakes and reservoirs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  14. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    NASA's budget is minuscule compared with the total US budget, and, much of space work today is in partnership with the private sector...there is plenty of money and resources for the US to do both...
     
  15. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No nation has stopped the pandemic although some have seen success in limiting its spread at least for now. To never be hit by a novel virus would demand total isolation from the rest of the world so no carriers ever come here.

    Yet hopefully we will look at what other nations did to limit the spread once it runs its course and try to emulate them if possible. IMO it is the population of that successful nation that made the difference and not the politicians so much.

    Yet president trump failed in limiting it early on with him not treating it seriously and being cavalier and irresponsible. Hopefully he learned from his mistakes . Even if his personality will not allow him to admit it .
    Yet we had the CCP withholding critical info when it should have not happened and screw ups by WHO.

    And horrible decisions by states.

    Yet there was no way to stop its spread either. All that could be done was limiting its spread so not to implode our health care system.

    The american people are also responsible for the status of its spread. It is like trying to herd house cats.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    First of all, Europe is doing spectacularly better than we are - even though Europe is denser.

    They had the same WHO, the same info from China, and had the same early crush of new cases. The difference is that they accepted science and have done and are doing a far superior job of working together to reduce the problem.

    We do not have ANY excuse for what is happening today.

    Take a look:
    [​IMG]
     
  17. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very difficult to argue against that point. So we should emulate what their citizens did and leadership. That graph is shocking and telling. Yet all of the EU didn't address it in the same way...right?

    How is Spain and Italy fairing? In spread and death rates?

    Were masks and social distance used? And what other steps were used?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    TRUMP enabled the failures in learning about COVID in China.

    He killed the "Predict" organization that had US and world scientists working in other countries enhancing their labs and investigating disease that has pandemic potential. Trump ended that, extracting our last scientists from China where some worked at Wuhan, leaving us (and the government of China, by the way) blind to this threat for far longer than necessary. US cooperation with China on contagions originating in China had been a real strong point - beneficial to the entire world and recognized as important by the Chinese government. It was a case where we were closely cooperating.

    Early on in Trump's administration he killed the NSC group working on organized pandemic response in America.

    Trump has worked to defund WHO (as if THAT is a solution to anything) and has worked to cut huge amounts from CDC.

    Trump totally ignored the previous administration's significant progress on a document showing how the US can acquire materials needed for pandemic response - how to acquire masks, ways to use the Defense Production Act, etc. At the same time he killed a bid by a company willing to build US based production of a million masks per day.

    There is absolutely NOTHING this president has done in favor of fighting pandemic in America.

    And, it shows in the charts of our failure as a nation, overwhelming the progress in northeaster states - states he berates rather than promoting!!

    It's MONTHS after this pandemic arrived.

    We're STILL failing.

    And, Europe proves that is self inflicted.
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I like all those questions.

    As the chart shows, they were hit as hard as we were. The horrible situation in Italy was hot news for weeks, for example.

    And, we have examples at home, too.

    We have New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Massachusetts that were hit, but figured how how to fight back successfully.

    We're not even seeing Trump promote what those states are doing, let alone working on how European success can be brought to America.

    We're not even seeing Trump so much as MENTION the plan for economic opening that is on whitehouse.gov - and that could be considered the administration plan. They have that plan and the certainly do not have any OTHER plan.
     
  20. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ever hear of "spin offs".

    Technology developed for aerospace applied to "us"
    Medical MRI imaging for example.



    As to the unwashed, starving masses
    support their revolution, not suppress it. ;)
     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Cool, but not particularly of interest to those without food or clean water.

    Maybe you should mention tang - lol.
     
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  22. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Look at the math! The US has 25% of the world's Covid-19 cases and 25% of the world's deaths...yet the US is only 5% of the world's population. The US has the kind of numbers one would expect from a 3rd world nation! And, we're far from over! There is NO EXCUSE for this other than the US failed...
     
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  23. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    It makes no difference what others do. There are only testing, social distancing, wearing face masks, and contact tracing all of which will be required 'long' after a vaccine is available. Every nation, every human, made a choice what to do. Whatever their choices were will have a direct reflection on the outcome. There is no mystery!
     
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  24. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    .

    I will wait to see the final stats once this novel virus runs its course. For current stats are only reflecting a snapshot in time and it could change as time goes by.

    Also we have no idea what the stats are in China. I don't trust the CCP do you?
     
  25. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Covid-19 basically started at the same time for all nations so whatever data exists today is reasonable data to compare how nations responded.

    I trust China data as much as I trust Trump data...
     

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