Afghan Contractor Handed Out Russian Cash to Kill Americans, Officials Say

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Patricio Da Silva, Jul 1, 2020.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    NYT has a sourcing policy that is par none, they have won 135 Pullitzers, etc, b
    Putin paying $100k to Taliban to kill US soldiers? While Trump has been fawning all over Putin?

    Intel thought enough of the story to put it in a brief, that proves the story is not a 'hoax'. That much has been confirmed, otherwise, all the major
    news outlets would not have carried the story. Now more details are coming forth, that proves it's probably true and worthy of gang of eight investigation, which is about to happen.

    You think that is a 'who cares' story? What the **** is wrong with you?
    Do all Trump supporters feel this way? What the **** is wrong with Trump supporters? Have they gone start raving mad?
     
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  2. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I still dont understand what the problem is.

    Like we don't do the same thing? China doesn't do this?

    Every country in the world probably does this.

    And I get that this is all new and shocking to most of you but for those of us who have been there, I'm honestly surprised people are shocked.
     
  3. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    You might want to read up, they've been working ops there for several years because when Nato and the US get out they have the most to gain. To keep America there would be a detriment to them, which is why this story makes zero sense. They want the Taliban and US to find peace and the US to leave.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-43500299
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/01/russia-afghansitan-united-states-bountygate/
     
  4. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    The NYT and Russia stories have been the biggest lies the last 3 years possible. They might have won Pulitzers but they got nothing right except feeding dems a pile of crap.
     
  5. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    You're right, everyone in the world does do it. That's why an appropriate response is merited to protect Americans. Which I outlined as find this Afghani, charge him as a terrorist(and in a military tribunal as an enemy combatant.), freeze his assets and then we'll put the troops in Poland as a massive F U to Russia, although likely to reawaken the cold war(though we're probably already there with election interference, etc.)
     
  6. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Emotional meltdowns are no substitute for evidence. I don't like Trump either, but this looks like another pre-election attack. It is possible, but way too early to run around with my arms flailing.
     
  7. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    You want to hear something funny? I have a neibhor who claims that Shaun ' vanity' Hannity is a journalist ! Hannity the purveyor of electronic turds that eminate from mouth a journalist? Too funny.
     
  8. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    Is Trump toast again? This must be 9 millionth "bombshell"
     
  9. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    Yeah Russia wants us out, which would make sense of them having the bounties.
     
  10. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    i have no doubt it’s a fact that there were rumors that were able to be verified enough to reach the president.

    i also remember all the “details” we heard about from the NY Times that showed a russian conspiracy
     
  11. Par10

    Par10 Well-Known Member

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    That's a stupid amount of money for one kill. I don't believe it.
    I think this is in your head.

    You mean like the Intel that had the whole world looking for WMDs in Iraq? (and all the major new outlets carried the story of?)

    Let's assume it's true and you are the POTUS. What is the correct response? War? Blockade? A strongly worded letter? Are you going to get more soldiers killed just to feel good about "doing something"? 2 soldiers have been killed this year. If true, that's a whopping $200k. Any response would cost so much more than this in money and lives. Would you be willing to pay that cost to feel good about "doing something"?

    This is a stupid story to make political points and keep people mad at the orange man. That it all.
     
  12. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    And they have lied plenty. See Russia Russia Russia..

    oooo shiny awards.... /facepalm

    No it has not been confirmed not a single name has said this story has any merit whatsoever. Nothing in the story was ever confirmed.. Adam Schiff knew about this story months ago and not even he did anything. The same guy that took a crank call from two Russians.
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    ....."officials say."
     
  14. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    You are uninformed. You are wholly unaware of how news sourcing works. There is no point in continuing discourse in the face of such ignorance. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt and give you some advice.

    First, Those are not just 'shiny awards' they are Pulitzer, over 100 of the for excellence in journalism, that all reputable news outlets covet.

    Now then,

    Trivializing your opponent's argument does not improve your rebuttal, it diminishes it.

    It's incompetent. If you can't up the caliber of your rebuttals, I'll have no choice but to kill file you ( place on the site's 'ignore' list ).

    Not that you would care. Just so you know, if you are ignored by me in the future, it means your posts are not up to a debating standard I find worthy of engaging in and I've set your avatar to the ignore function as provided on this forum.

    See, I'm here to debate, not mess around. So, I recommend the following, to improve the caliber of your rebuttals, noting that I do not have to agree with them, that is not the point, but you, anyone, can improve their rebuttal, i.e., making it a rebuttal worthy of engagement ( by me, I cannot speak for anyone else) by the following:

    Avoiding things that do not constructively improve your argument

    1. Ad hominems.
    2. Weasel words ( google it )
    3. Loaded phrases
    4. Misuse of generalities ( there are times when they are appropriate, there are times when they are not )
    5. Mocking or trivializing your opponent's argument, snarky retorts, etc.
    6. Puffery ( shaming belittling your opponent in order to puff yourself up and #6 basically falls under this umbrella, as well)
    7. Logical fallacies. For example, It's okay to cite authority among other supporting factors, but using 'authority' alone, is not proof one is correct, ie., it's one of the many logical fallacies that exits. There are websites devoted to this, such as the Carl Sagan Baloney Detection Kit, so I recommend googling it.

    Now, I used the fact that NYT has many awards. Does this mean that NYT is always right? No, of course not, not any more than any news outlet, but it does tell us they strive to be a good news journal. There are a lot of news journals out there, and none of them get it right all hte time, and some get it wrong a lot more than others. A good site to use as a measuring stick on the caliber of news outlets is mediabiasfactcheck, org. Note that left or right bias, isn't, in an of itself, sufficient reason to ignore an outlet, because if it's not extreme, it means that a news outlets choice of stories supports one side of the political spectrum more than the other, but the stories themselves are, for the most part, competent, noting that the more complex the story is, the greater the likelihood for innacuries introduced, and that is true for all news outlets.

    See, there is an art to learning how to get truth form MSM, but avoiding MSM because DJT says it's 'fake news', well, that's really a demagogue's trick to keep you stupid, and demagogue's DO NOT want an informed public. Remember when Trump said 'I love uneducated people' it was a stunningly honest statement. I commend him for the honesty, but he's being honest about who he is, and who he is is not good.

    So, good debate form is merely to stick to the facts, logic, and back it up in some way, and trying, as best as one can, to avoid logical fallacies, and the one important thing, ( and we all do this at times) is lowering the tone. Nothing contributes to engagement like friendliness, but, of course, there is no obligation to be 'nice', the thing is, one shouldn't be overly rude, understanding that it's human nature to get into heated debate which brings up the old adage, 'if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. but that being said, if one will just take this advice, it will improve the caliber of your rebuttals.

    Look, I'm not claiming to be God's gift to debate forums, but I have been on many forums since the 90s, during the days of the BBses and Usenet. There is such a thing as good debate form.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
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  15. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Trump supporters are more than just political supporters. They are like a religious cult. It is as if Donald was like Mohammad. Senators formally of the predominately Conservative party once known as the Republican Party behave as if Donald had the Surgeon General remove their manhood. They behave like Zombie Eunuchs. When Donald does or says something ********-lian or traitorous and a reporter asks them to comment they act as if their tounges had also been removed and walk Zombie like to lunch. Others look down at their shoes as if there were sticky notes written by Donald to tell them what to say.

    It is just unbelievable that his supporters believe any lid Donald tells them.

    I said this before but again- if Donald told his followers that 24 Gold comes out of their anuses they would run and dive into the sewage treatment plant and fil their MAGA hats with "GoldTurds".

    It has gotten extremely sad and downright sickening that so few patriotic Americans exist.
     
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  16. Par10

    Par10 Well-Known Member

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    The same could be said for Democrats so don't kid yourself into thinking that you are above Trump supporters. You don't remember the times when anyone questioned Obama for anything, they were automatically labeled a racist? Should I also say that Hillary supporters seemed to believe anything that came out of her mouth. When she lost, the crying in the street (and TV) was just pathetic. They had lost their god! Oh, the anguish.

    This is politics. Don't act like your side's S**T doesn't stink. Everyone's does.
     
  17. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    That is an excellent set of suggestions which no matter which side a member is on should strive to use. We all have different styles but you are correct that over using ad hominem attacks should be avoided.

    The deal is that anger can drive any of us to react poorly to a post. Not an excuse to careless posting. I will at times take a self imposed "away time " for a couple months" just to let the built up anger diassapate a bit.

    I am also think about posting less but hitting fewer topics with better thought about responses. There is no prize worth having for Forum frequent flyers.
     
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  18. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    I cannot speak for Democrats therefore I avoid defending them. If you noticed if you read my post is that I am extremely disappointed in most Republican politicians. My observation that most Republican politicians have failed us is not mine alone. We have the Lincoln project which is made up of real honest conservatives with a vibrant cadre' of conservative firmer Republican. My hope is that those good Conservative return to the Republican Party once the cancer that is the Donald is cured. You know criticizing the opposition party is easy. But being willing to critique your own party is the mark of true patriot.

    The main problem is that Donald is not comservatiove and not even a Republican. He is a good enough Con Artist tat he knows who to throw red meat and to, along with an unhealthy serving of BS to.
     
  19. Nunya D.

    Nunya D. Well-Known Member

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    People seem to forget that we have a House Intelligence Committee and a Senate Intelligence Committee that would have been brief on anything significant and verified enough to warrant briefing Trump. They would have even been brief on matters not completely verified and briefed to Trump. These Committees have the ability and authority to take actions on serious issues, though their authority is not unilateral as Trump's is.

    I just read an article that stated Schiff (chairman of the House Intelligent Committee) was briefed clear back in February. This would have been a matter where he certainly would have been briefed....especially if the matter was significant to brief Trump. So why did the House Intelligent Committee not even recommend any action?

    The left base is being played (as usual) to case blame for something the Democrats are equally as guilty on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
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  20. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yeah, the old 'count to ten' before you hit the 'post reply' button, comes to mind here.
     
  21. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I hope you are right. Currently, Trump is destroying the republican party, as many have made a Faustian bargain of which Faust, himself, would have approved, in the electing of Donald Trump.
     
  22. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    I am hoping that once the cancer in the Oval Office is surgically removed that the classical Conservative Republicans will return and expell the extremists. Then that they go on to restore our country back to greatness. One has to have hope if nothing else.
     
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  23. Nunya D.

    Nunya D. Well-Known Member

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    You say this like it is a bad thing.

    The current Republican party and the current Democrat party are 2 sides of the same coin. Neither party has any concern for the interest of the people and haven't for decades. Both parties are steep in corruption and party agenda. Accusations, propaganda, fear, and intimidation are their shackles and chains to enslave the populous.....and many people are more than willing to put the shackles and chains on themselves.

    There was a time when I would not support term limits. Those days are long gone. The system has gotten too corrupt and the people have shown that they are easily fooled into voting for someone just because of the (D) or the (R) behind the candidate's name.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  24. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    You're a cynic, I'm not, sorry.

    I don't know what planet you are living on, but the ACA helped me in way that no president in history helped me, so I take serious umbrage at your accusation against the DNC, who have been trying to get health care passed since the Clintons. Republicans wouldn't even be talking about health care if it weren't for democrats. now, on the issue of neoliberalism -- which you didn't mention, but that is the dark cloud behind both parties,, the right since Reagan has embraced it, and so did the Clintons (much more so that Obama did ) and I'll agree that both parties have been influenced by neoliberalism, which has done more to harm this country more than any other policy, but the right has embraced it much more than left.

    In the corruption column, that's weighted very heavily on the right, where there are more convictions and indictments by Nixon, Reagan, and now Trump, many fold more than any Democrat administration.

    There are only two parties with a caucus in every legislature across the land that are big enough to effect policy, D & R. that's your choice. There is no choice but to pick one and try to elect people that think like you do. going third party, well, no one, to date, has been able to do it, not even a billionare Ross Perot.

    I voted for Bernie who I hoped would exact serious change, but we are stuck with Biden. Now, if you think there is no difference between Biden and Trump, you need to take a good look at Trump who is an existential threat to the nation, not to mention the nation's health. Biden is way too moderate for my taste, but he's at least a return to having a normal president, and will reverse the destructive things that Trump has done.

    Also, in your sig, "The reason for the adoption of the Second Amendment was to protect the citizens of the new nation from the power of an oppressive state",
    My research indicates that The north give the south the second amendment because the South had state militia patrols where all adult males had to bear arms, and the militia's primary purpose was to keep slaves from straying, and without that amendment, the south wouldn't have ratified the constitution. It's where the 'well regulated militia' language comes from, and 'well-regulated' means well organized.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/opinion/second-amendment-slavery-james-madison.html

    In fact, 2a was to preserve, not prevent, government tyranny, though the tyranny was against African Americans.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  25. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Such Tripe deserves the golden flying Fickleds Finger of Fate.
     

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