The Confederate battle flag

BOLDFACED. I did not ignore what I never said. Get. Your. Facts. Straight. Copy/paste a link to wherever you allege I did say that I was ignoring their economy, when any casual reading shows I address that very fact, far, far more than slavery.

 

Unlikely I would see it that way. If you have something to say, then say it. I did look at a couple pages, but you were spending all your time dodging. Looks like you're still doing it.

You also neglected to respond to my point, that the Civil War was a waste.

 

I responded to your insertion of fiction. And by all means, please tell a veteran war is a waste. Yeah. Just do it.

 

A quote from what you said earlier might have proven your point. Still looks like a dodge.

I said the Civil War was a waste. But, sure, war is a waste. War may be impossible to avoid, on rare occasions, but the wars we've had in my lifetime could have been avoided.

But the waste of money and lives is astonishing.

 

I'm talking about why the CSA was founded. What it stood for. Those who say it wasn't about slavery either haven't done their homework or are willingly engaging in historical revisionism. As a certain rw pundit is fond of saying: the facts don't care about your feelings.

 

Lol, tariffs? Really? Tell me, what tariffs were in place when the South seceded, and who wrote them? Also, who paid more in tariffs, the North or the South? Hint: homework destroys your argument.

 

Apparently you haven't done your homework.

Slavery was legal before the Civil War so why in the hell would the War be about keeping slavery? Your beloved abortion and gay marriage Supreme Court had forever enshrined slavery as legal in the UNITED STATES (yeah we gotta git rid of that flag too) in 1857 with the Dred Scott v Sandford case. The Civil War started in 1861. So if slavery had been rubber stamped as the law of land 4 years earlier then surely any moron can figure out that the war wasn't about slavery. It was about the 10th Amendment. The Bill of Rights (seems as though everyone forgets the 10th Amendment was in the Bill of Rights). States rights. Taxation without representation.

And slavery was still ****ing legal until the ratification of the 14th Amendment in 1868, 3 years after the Civil War ended. And before you start yammering on about the illegal Lincoln executive order referred to as the Emancipation Proclamation, you need to realize it only applied to the states of the Confederacy, not the states of the United States (the North).

Yeah, history is a bitch.

14:00 - 16:30 Straight from a Confederate veteran's mouth:

 

Just as bad as slavery?

 

If secession wasn't about slavery, then why did the seceding states repeatedly say it was about slavery? I don't expect an answer here. But, yeah, history sure is a bitch.

 

I'm not talking about any political party. I'm talking about Trump supporters.

Is that why Trump took children away from their parents by force? His supporters wanted to have more to adopt for free? How kindhearted! I have no idea how much charitable donations political parties make, but the practice of buying indulgences ended in the 16th Century.

I know that Republicans believe that the right to live begins at conception and ends at birth.

 

I would say they are about equal.

 

How do those things equate?

 

I believe we already went through this.

The founding of the CSA was a decades-old event: the preservation of slavery was a final factor, the straw that broke the camel's back, not the sole basis. Most of the men fighting for the Confederacy were not fighting for the preservation of slavery. Many of them did not own slaves. They had a regionalistic loyalty, and they were fighting the Union that they considered foreign occupiers. Your arguing that the founding of the CSA was in vacuo, instead of respecting the nuanced context.

 

I did my homework. The South paid more in tarrifs: "Because importation was often cheaper than shipping from the North, the South paid most of the federal tariffs." (1)

1: https://www.dailyprogress.com/opini...cle_63b77f5c-dc0c-11e2-8e99-001a4bcf6878.html

 

The founding of the CSA is more than just a few decades old. Yes, the preservation of slavery was not just "a final factor" but the primary factor. No other specific issue was given the same import. None.

I'd love to see evidence regrading your claim about what "Most of the men fighting for the Confederacy" were fighting for. Do you have any? As far as many of them not owning slaves . . . so? Many of them planned on owning slaves as they got older, many were part of slaveholding families (even if they were not the patriarch), many depended on slaveholding families, many were ideologically supportive of slavery whether or not they owned slaves, and many were terrified that the freeing of the slaves would lead to "servile insurrection."

If you can't debate the founding of the CSA, then you can't debate the founding of the CSA. I'm prepared to cite primary sources. Confederate apologists generally aren't.

 

Meanwhile, in reality, the North paid the majority of tariffs when you actually look at the numbers. In fact, most of our tariff revenue came from New York City, alone, at the time. Plus there is the fact that the tariff in effect when states started seceding was the tariff of 1857 . . . written by Southerners.

 

You know that slaves also didn't have freedom of speech. In addition to being slaves and all.

 

The men on the ground in the war didn't own slaves mostly, but the ruling class in the south almost all owned slaves. Its always the ruling class who decides to go to war.

 

Absolute nonsense. The CSA was founded in the Montgomery convention in February 1861 as a reaction to Abraham Lincoln being elected President. These were states that depended heavily on agriculture and they felt that Lincoln was an "abolitionist" and a threat to institutional slavery. And they believed this would ruin the economy of their states.

There was some talk of secession before 1860, but no CSA. And it was based on discrepancies about slavery between the North and the South. Specifically about the way slaves were treated and the refusal by most of the Northern state to return escaped slaves.

Slavery wasn't the absolute sole reason for secession, but it was most definitely not the straw that broke the camel's back. Some of the soldiers might have been ignorant of why their state was fighting the war. A few maybe gave in to propaganda as to what would happen if the north invaded their territory.... and a handful might have even been right about their fears. But the majority knew that the political discrepancy was about slavery and they chose to fight to preserve it. Not because they owned states, but because the knew their economy depended on it.

 

Astute delineation. I'd have to agree. Individuals can still fly it for various personal reasons. But State governments ought not. I think it has flown for so long out of respect for the vanquished. But seeing as they're all long gone, what's the point.

 

Yeah, I've heard some refer to it as the war of northern aggression. And R.E. Lee left the academy to fight for his beloved State of Virginia. Regional ties must have been overwhelmingly strong back then.

 

Wow, great history....from the Civil War to Afghanistan. Thanks for your familys long service to our country.

 

Hendrix got rid of some old time racism.

As BB King and other musicians and artists.

 

Yes. You can't legislate as to what people display inside their own private property. But it's long due that state and local governments stop taking sides in favor of immoral practices like slavery and segregation and against the people who were enslaved and segregated.

It's breathtaking how long overdue this is. Good for BLM for putting us well on the way to getting it done!

 

Actually, blacks don't suffer from slavery. They suffer from the Democrat partys welfare system and all the victim crap they've been taught. And blacks are equally responsible for allowing themselves to be corralled and signing onto the scheme. We're all born fresh and new, with a full boat of liberties and public schools and a common language. We are not a nation of four hundred year old slaves and slave owners. The median age of black Americans is thirty years. Thirty years ago we had Michael Jordan, Prince and Michael Jackson....hardly step and fetch it servants.