Debunked, "Socialism has never worked"

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Contradictory. You can't impose a value without imposing on the property rights of those forced by law to purchase that value.
     
  2. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Value is not conjured by fiat.
     
  3. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    Strawmen only have straw..
     
  4. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    It's early in the morning for me, but I don't see how that makes sense.

    Sounds like you are doing some sort of sovereign citizen sort of thing. I pay property taxes, they keep my little world going round..
     
  5. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'll simplify.

    Socialists believe that profit is a measurement of value stolen from the labor that produced it. They ignore the value of the capital that was used to produce it.

    So when labor accepts a wage for the value of this labor, the socialist wants to step in and command a higher value commiserate with the value of the profit that might be produced from that labor. This imposes value on the employer who should have the right to say, nope I don't value your labor that much.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  6. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How does paying property taxes ensure the right to the value of your labor?
     
  7. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Conservatism merely refers to a weighting system which encourages the status quo. A conservative social welfare function, for example, simply weights losses more than gains.
     
  8. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    This is nonsense. First, even neoclassical economics admits that underpayment is the nom. They simply use the concept of the marginal revenue productivity of labour. Second, market socialism take into account capital investments. However, it acknowledges that much of the capital is the result of surplus derived by labour. The real value is actually in entrepreneurial spirit. Compensation for that spirit is acknowledged, ironically making socialist analysis compatible with the Austrian school of economics (and its focus on Hayekian tacit knowledge as the delriver of economic success)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  9. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That question of course depends on the citizens view of what is in their own interest- and how realistic the view is. The promise of making pay for what you need if you vote for me...
    In other words, the magical free word- already convinces millions of people to ignore the long-term failure for the short-term promise. Politicians and political movements are promoting victimhood all the time to produce people who will think like that and vote based on that.

    There is nothing to prevent them doing the right thing, acting in their own best interests- but what they perceive as best interests derails the ability to actually make the right long-term choices.
     
  10. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You don't get to define how someone else values something. That's defined by the parties to the contract. The value is what the employee and employer agree to together.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  11. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    Words like Socialist do not add clarity. That's usually intentional.

    Your argument is out of context. It was Republican politics that created the crazy imbalance we have today. What we need now is a Progressive era to stop our slide into hell.

    If you want to know what that means:

    https://www.amazon.com/Price-Inequa...1594212432&sprefix=price+of+in,aps,153&sr=8-2
     
  12. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    Then why post this crap???? Educate who???
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only morons are one's who call others "morons" without having a clue why that person is a moron.

    And you love collectivism - who are you kidding.
     
  14. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    This country had strong fascist qualities before Trump took office. Maybe that is WHY he ran? He wanted some of the action.
     
  15. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why do you make such crap comments? Go away.
     
  16. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you answer the questions, could it be they don't square with your narrative????
     
  17. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Any answer to that question is relative and therefore just your own personal opinion.
    The problems arise (including death and destruction) when you mistake your own personal opinions (or "alternate facts") for the Truth.
     
  18. quiller

    quiller Well-Known Member

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    Once upon a time parental controls over computers kept children off-line and not bothering adults. These kids believe what their equally ignorant friends got wrong from second-hand accounts of events they can't understand. Then they go to Reddit, TikTok and other kiddie pestholes and spread even worse demented reworkings of facts to produce things on the level of your post.

    Originality is not your strong suit. Nor is it even dealt to you in the card game of life, based on your stated examples.

    In November, those children will get spanked. The Democrats have allowed the violence to go on far too long and Trump (by doing nothing) forces the Donks into taking 100% of the blame for these outrages.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  19. quiller

    quiller Well-Known Member

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    Why, indeed! Ya think he might be some kind of paid poster?
     
  20. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's why I posted the two videos, to clarify that point. And, capitalism to your definition, doesn't really exist, either. America is a blend of both, socialism and capitalism.
    Just watch the damn video, and you'll have all the answers you need. FYI, true capitalism does not exist in the United States, we have a blend, 'state capitalism', you could call it that. Or, socially guided capitalism. The only thing that democratic socialists in America want to add to the existing system are Free education and medicare for all, that's pretty much it. Also, strict regulation of the financial industries to prevent boom and bust economies which tend to be the nature of unfettered capitalism.
    And. who are they ? I ask because I know of no one in the democratic party that is advocating 'venezuela'

    So, enlighten me.

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  21. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Translation:
    You cannot demonstrate your metric to have any validity, and as such, your post/claim/conclusion cannot be demonstrated sound.
    As expected.
     
  22. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    It will be, once the Democrats remove the cap on contributions and place a cap on benefits.
     
    Thought Criminal likes this.
  23. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, Bernie's choice of 'socialism' was a strategic error, because he's not a socialist according to the definition offered by the Socialist Party of America, of which he is not a member.

    AS for the public debt, make no mistake about that one, that is a bipartisan deal, and always has been. In fact, repubs spend like drunken sailors with an bottomless credit card. Don't even go there, the evidence is there for all to see.

    What the left wants, which will result it LESS debt, is taxing the super rich --- reinstall the progressive tax system as it once was ( and don't give me any meme that says they don't have the dough, the top 1% own 40% of the nation's wealth, they have the dough and let's raise the corporate tax to what it was ).

    What I, personally, want, is the above plus tax religion


    historically speaking, republicans increase deficits more than dems
    https://towardsdatascience.com/which-party-adds-more-to-deficits-a6422c6b00d7
    https://www.businessinsider.com/rep...-thrifters-on-deficits-to-big-spenders-2019-8
     
  24. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    So quit using the term. It isn't helping you at all.

    My post had nothing partisan in it. No need to go there.

    That won't work. After you increase revenue the federal government will spend it and then continue borrowing to spend even more.

    Tax religion?


    historically speaking, republicans increase deficits more than dems
    https://towardsdatascience.com/which-party-adds-more-to-deficits-a6422c6b00d7
    https://www.businessinsider.com/rep...-thrifters-on-deficits-to-big-spenders-2019-8[/QUOTE]
     
  25. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Federal income tax rates have always been progressive, and still are.
    Why do you hate the 1st Amendment?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020

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