The Invention of White people

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by Moriah, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    Jacqueline Battalora is a history professor who gives a great lecture on how being White was invented in the USA.
    It all started in colonial Virginia, after Bacon's Rebellion. The elite planters needed a way to drive a wedge between the European indentured servants and the African slaves. The planters were afraid of the uprisings/rebellions that could result if those two groups found common cause.
    So, the elite planters set about elevating the status of the European indentured servants to White (with certain privileges) and degrading the status of the African slaves to lifetime servitude. This was all done with new laws put into effect in from 1681 to 1705.
    Why wasn't this taught to us in our high school history classes? Don't they realize what a terrible mistake it is to hide this country's true history from young people?
    Please Google Jacqueline Battalora whenever you have time. This lady is an amazing historian.
     
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  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    She's a history professor? I thought she was a sociologist?
     
  3. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected. Thank you, Lil Mike, for catching my mistake.
    Jacqueline Battalora: lawyer and professor of Sociology and Criminal Justice at Saint Xavier University. Also, she is a former Chicago police officer. She holds a PhD from Northwestern University.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  4. Bjorn

    Bjorn Active Member

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    Are American students generally not taught that the use of (West) African slaves did not start out as race-based slavery, or that the concept of "White", too, has changed its meaning and who were supposedly to be considered among the "White race"? I am not familar with the author, but you could you give your thoughts on what you believe could/might change if Battalora's book (or the central points of it) became required reading or teaching material for high school history classes?
     
  5. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    We’re taught that for the most part yes, some exceptions to that rule do apply. For example Queen Isabella of Spain had African people at court because they were exotic.
     
  6. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    1) American high school students are taught very little about the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade. The first 20 Africans bought to America in 1619 were slaves. Sometimes African slaves were able to buy their freedom in the early colonial days, but they always started out as slaves. Europeans could be indentured servants, who earned their freedom by paying off their debts.
    2) The first Europeans to settle in the American colonies identified themselves by the country they came from: England, Ireland, Portugal etc. After Bacon's Rebellion, the

    planter elite needed a way to control their workers; a divide and conquer strategy. They didn't want the African slaves and European indentured servants to join forces against them. That is why the planter elite began making laws to elevate the "White" European workers and to degrade the "Black" African workers.
    The planter elite CREATED a race problem as a way to manipulate their workers and help themselves stay in power. I believe a version of this still happens down to this very day. The details are a little different, but the goals are the same. Divide and conquer.
     
  7. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    If American high school students had a better knowledge of why there was an intentional division made between Blacks and Whites, I believe they would at least have a beginning at understanding each other.
    Sadly, the Founding Fathers of this country (who were mostly slaveowners) created a division between the races. The Constitution and other founding documents reflect their ideas of White Supremacy. They did it for their own financial well being and protection of their way of life. Here we are hundreds of years later and we are still struggling with these racial issues.
    P.S. If you haven't read about Bacon's Rebellion of 1676, please Google it. I just learned about it a few years ago.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  8. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Your frightening display of historical pejorativeness is astounding. And frankly super inaccurate.
     
  9. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Gosh... those planter elites you refer to should an awful lot like modern day democrats.... Just sayin...
     
  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    The irony...

    No, I'm sorry the New York Times mislead you, but those first Jamestown Africans came over as indentured servants.
     
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  11. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Cool story bro, tell it at the stormfront 2030 reunion, maybe you’ll meet your cousin there after that terrible fling.
     
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  12. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    This is a very, very strange claim, and it is easily debunked.

    What about the European-founded plantations in places like St. Kitts, Barbados, Jamaica, etc...?

    Those were in operation long before 1681, and it was pretty much the same arrangement- black slaves, and white indentured servant "overseers" with certain privileges. That was all done under British law, and it had nothing to do with America. The French did it in Haiti too. There was plenty of it going around back then.

    Cripes, the Spanish had set up the same arrangement in Cuba as far back as the early 1500s.

    How was all that not "White being invented?" What happened in the USA(which wasn't even a thing that anybody even dreamt of at the time of the European plantations) that was so unique that it led to the invention of White?

    They probably don't teach about the USA inventing White in schools, because it's an utterly ridiculous idea that an America-hating sociologist puked up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
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  13. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    Please don't try to derail my thread with the Democrat/Republican crap. This discussion has nothing to do with political parties.
    Thank you.
     
  14. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    LOL! And who exactly did those first Jamestown Africans make an indenture contract with? :icon_picknose:Nobody!
    The real story: Those 20 enslaved Africans from Angola were on a ship that was pirated by another ship. They were then bought to Jamestown where they were sold. The year was 1619.
     
  15. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    My discussion is the invention of "White" people in the American colonies, not what happened in the Caribbean or elsewhere.
    My concern is how the system of White Supremacy got started in the USA.
    Bacon's Rebellion is what led to the invention of "White " people, and that happened in this country.
    When you have time Google: Slave laws of 1705. This gives lots of information about the mindset of the Founding Fathers/planter elite class.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  16. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Okay, but "invented" is generally understood to mean like the first creation of something new and unique. There was nothing unique about how slavery was done in America. It was old hat. The way slavery was done throughout human history followed a formula that was about as standard as baking bread.

    The idea that America somehow did slavery in a way that was revolutionary, or especially heinous and barbaric, is a popular chestnut of America-hating sociologist lecturers, but it's just not true.

    You wanna talk about heinous and barbaric slavery? Check out the Arab sex slave trade. Oof. There's a reason the kiddies won't hear a peep about that in school. That'd mess their little minds right up.

    Oh, and don't get me started on the novel and creative features of slavery the Aztecs invented.

    300px-Codex_Magliabechiano_(141_cropped).jpg

    YIKES!
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
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  17. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Yeah. And the Spanish would install the hacienda system in their colonies which was an extension of the forced labor system found in mesoamerican peoples. When those people died out from literal work exhaustion, the Spanish brought over African slaves to take their place. That’s why the colonies “created” race in the modern context.
     
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  18. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    And just think, as bad of bastards as those Spanish were, and they were right vicious bastards, but those bastards took one look at the sort of kookiness the Aztecs were getting up to with the cutting out of the hearts, and the Spanish were like YIKES!!! These people need Jesus.
     
  19. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    From PBS:

    In 1619 the first black Africans came to Virginia. With no slave laws in place, they were initially treated as indentured servants, and given the same opportunities for freedom dues as whites.
     
  20. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    I trust you are not trying to hijack my thread. This discussion isn't about the Arab slave trade or the practices of the Aztecs.
    This thread is about how the founders of colonial America (USA) invented the classification of "White" people as a tool to divide and conquer.
    Did you Google: Slave laws of 1705. Please read that; it will help you understand.
     
  21. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    Those 20 Africans had been kidnapped from Angola. They were stolen off the original ship and ended up in Jamestown. The people who kidnapped them intended to sell them into slavery.
    Indentured servants usually signed a contract. Did those Africans sign a contract?
    And that isn't the point of my thread anyway. The point of my thread is the invention of "Whiteness" by the founders of colonial America(USA).
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  22. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    First off, I'll blather about whatever I want, yer not the boss of me.

    Second, there was nothing unique, ingenious, or particularly-diabolical about the tactics used to control slaves in America.

    Slavery is a human institution as old and ubiquitous as prostitution, and the slavery mousetrap wasn't reinvented in some astonishingly-nefarious way in colonial America.

    They all followed pretty much the same Slavery for Dummies formula, and 'Divide and Conquer' was straight out of Chapter 1
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  23. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Yeah! And those pesky Incans too! What with their brain surgery, record keeping system, and something something white burden. I mean if you want to justify white burden go ahead. I'm not going to take the bait.
     
  24. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    That's your twisted take on it, I wasn't making any sort of argument for white supremacy.

    My point was absolutely not that Americans were the "best slavers", or that somehow American slavery was justified- that all came right from you.

    My only point was that Americans certainly weren't THE WORST SLAVERS EVAR! as many a sociologist blathering in a campus lecture hall would have us all believe.

    Please don't try and speak for me. I know my thoughts, and I don't need you to narrate your version of them for me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  25. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    So you're saying 'white people' needed to come in ("they need JESUS!!!") and tell people how to act to make their slavery more culturally uplifting?

    Yeah. White Man's Burden.
     

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