8 Supreme Court cases the justices have yet to rule on

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Egoboy, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    With Mueller filed in the SDNY by Mueller. No campaign finance laws violation for Trump. Vance is not a US Attorney for the SDNY he is a DA in New York. What US attorney for the SDNY has said they have evidence of campaign violations and has it been turned over to the FEC?

    "The Associate Press reports that on Thursday morning, former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen pleaded guilty in the Southern District of New York to making false statements to Congress related to his involvement in real estate deals in Russia on behalf of Donald Trump. At the hearing, Cohen's lawyer told the judge that his client was entering a plea agreement with Special Counsel Robert Mueller."
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-michael-cohen-plea-documents-mueller-probe
     
  2. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yeah, but nobody is talking about this case yet... it seems very strange and that the Native Americans have won something big today...

    Have to do some more legwork on this one...

    But it seems Neil went 0-3 with conservatives today...
     
  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I will restate, it was not dismissed but sent back to the lower court for consideration with new pleas which means the yes it can be challenged and Trump could yet win, at this point Trump nor the accounting firm have to turn over anything.
     
  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Was predicted 1,000,000 would die. Thankfully Trump put in the travel bans which Biden would not have. I'd say that is a success and why do you keep posting that the virus is not a hoax when no one claims it is?
     
  5. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump will never win on the merits of Vance... he will win with the ridiculously SLOW judicial system we have these days..
     
  6. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    SDNY was merely the court Mueller used it was NOT the US attorney for the SDNY the plea bargain was with Mueller. What evidence and from whom and have they turned it over to the FEC?

    Here is what the federal prosecutors said

    NEW YORK (AP) — Federal prosecutors have told a judge in New York they have concluded their investigation into campaign finance crimes committed by President Donald Trump’s former lawyer, Michael Cohen.

    The closure of the case is the strongest suggestion yet that federal prosecutors have decided not to bring criminal charges against anyone besides Cohen in the scheme to use hush-money payments to protect Trump’s reputation during the 2016 presidential campaign.

    U.S. District Judge William H. Pauley III made the disclosure in a court filing Wednesday as part of a legal fight over whether to unseal search warrant materials dealing with the investigation.
    https://apnews.com/fe2614b1224b45edbb835f2e00cf63be

    And

    Former Election Commissioner: Cohen and Trump Didn’t Violate Campaign Finance Law

    Trump-haters hoping the president’s former personal attorney, Michael Cohen, will provide the evidence needed to impeach the president and perhaps even “lock him up” are likely headed for a bitter disappointment. The Cohen guilty pleas are likely irrelevant to the fate of President Trump.

    That’s because in my judgment – as someone who served for two years as a member of the Federal Election Commission – the campaign finance law violations Cohen pleaded guilty to committing, allegedly at Donald Trump’s direction, aren’t really violations.
    https://www.heritage.org/election-i...sioner-cohen-and-trump-didnt-violate-campaign

    What campaign finance violation???
     
  7. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    So, the court has botched this ruling, but at least it rightly limited to a "criminal proceeding". Only one problem: Even that is expansive as though a warrant is a part of a "criminal proceeding", when in fact it is separate from a criminal proceeding.

    In other words, you are served an arrest warrant or a search warrant and that is the investigative process. The criminal proceeding(ie: a court case) is when an indictment is served and it moves to that phase.

    Donald Trump has not been charged with a crime, he was named an unindicted "co-conspirator". Therefore, it's not a criminal proceeding. But accepting the court's ruling today, means that the DA's can now effectively subpoena your tax records, medical records, etc. Why do we even have the IRS?
    '
    We, the US, lost a great deal of fourth amendment rights today.
     
  8. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    See below. He had plea deals with both Mueller and the SDNY.

    The SDNY says they have evidence to the contrary. We'll find out the extent of that after Trump is no longer in office. Assuming Trump isn't successful in replacing the leadership there . . . as he is now obviously desperate to do.

    When discussing Cohen I'm talking about the SDNY, not Vance.

    I have no idea whether it has been turned over the he FEC or not. I just know that, when convicting Cohen, they mentioned having evidence that Trump directed Cohen . . . which is pretty common for client/lawyer relationships.

    Yes, he ALSO had a plea deal with Mueller regarding his Russia activity. Pretty sure his plea deal for the campaign finance fraud was with the SDNY.

    Everything in the plea deal you linked to was with regards to Russia. There is no mention of Stormy Daniels or any payment of any kind.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  9. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    It is a criminal proceeding and we are talking about subpoenas in a criminal proceeding, not warrants. And DAs can already subpoena records. This isn't new.

    A grand jury approved the subpoena in question. If Trump's lawyers had a case for arguing that there was not enough evidence to issue such a subpoena, they would have made that argument. They didn't. Instead, they stuck with the argument that the President should be held above the law in absolutely every respect until he has left office. The SC, thankfully, didn't buy that argument.
     
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  10. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    He knows all of that.... deflection is the M.O. here...

    Cohen is now at the MCC.... could be on his way back to Club Fed in Otisville (probably less COVID up there than MCC)
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
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  11. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/fourth_amendment

    A DA cannot 'subponea' documents, he lacks that power(or used to) under the fourth Amendment. It says specifically it can't be done without a warrant and under probable cause. Only a judge may issue subpoenas to summon(and/or Congress). The district attorney serves at the whim of the courthouse, not the other way around.

    This is a BLATANT fourth amendment violation. Right down to the letter. This ruling destroys the fourth amendment, it takes a sledge hammer to it and forever it's gone.
     
  12. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Mueller handed over the Stormy Daniels stuff to the DA at the SDNY. He didn't handle it himself. As for what evidence, that isn't public yet.

    Again, this was at the same time that they said they had evidence that Trump directed him. They know they can't indict a sitting president, nor are they likely to go after the lawyer but the client for the same crime when they have reason to believe the client directed the lawyer.

    Cute. An opinion piece. So now we have this guy's opinion. Meanwhile, the judge apparently agreed that this was a crime, otherwise he would have rejected the guilty plea.

    Cohen is in jail for campaign finance fraud. Nothing is going to change that.

    The same one Cohen is in jail for and which AMI entered into an immunity deal to avoid prosecution for.
     
  13. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    No we didn't....

    And if you were under the impression a grand jury cannot subpoena YOUR tax records before today, you might want to click this link

    https://www.irs.gov/irm/part9/irm_09-005-002

    Since I figure you won't, I give you the applicable section

    SNIP
    upload_2020-7-9_14-25-55.png

    ENDSNIP
     
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  14. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't work like that(rejecting the guilty plea). Otherwise, the Michael Flynn saga would've been in a much different situation. Without any evidence to the contrary, if someone plea's to a crime then the court typically accepts it.

    Regardless of Cohen's plea or the AMI immunity deal, that has no baring on Trump's legal standing or not.
     
  15. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Subpoenas and warrants are not the same thing. And, yes, DAs can issue subpoenas under certain circumstances precisely BECAUSE they serve at the whim of the courthouse.

    Also, the grand jury issued this subpoena. The DA only acted on their behalf.

    If you want to play make-believe that subpoenas are now a violation of the 4th Amendment, then keep playing make-believe. The facts don't care about your feelings.
     
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  16. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    If you are seriously going to sit here and argue that judges can't reject pleas, then I encourage you to do some homework on the subject. They can.

    Cute, but no.

    If what they are pleading guilty to isn't actually a crime, then the court can reject the plea.

    This isn't about evidence. This is about whether the action in question is actually a crime to begin with. If I plead guilty to wearing green on a Saturday, the court isn't going to care about whether or not there is evidence to the contrary. They will reject the plea because wearing green on a Saturday isn't a crime.

    That depends on what information they have and the extent to which it has been corroborated. The SDNY apparently thinks they have enough to back up their claim, and those guys don't mess around.

    Again, why do you think Trump is so desperate to change the leadership in the SDNY?
     
  17. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    Read your snipplet closely, it says nothing about subponea power at all. It specifically says the AUSA may ask for CI assistance whenever they may feel that the evidence includes crimes that are under the umbrella of the IRS.

    In other words, they ask the IRS for the information and the IRS complies with that information. And it's an important distinction, because the IRS specifically can handle those financial crimes and can determine for itself whether or not they are crimes(and/or in conjunction in a review.)

    That's not what happened here. Here, the DA Vance lacks the necessary evidence and is probing FOR that evidence. For all he knows, it probably won't turn up. But that doesn't matter, the big news here is that our fourth amendment has been shredded.

    All for what Vance thinks it might turn up. If it does, great for him but it didn't come without costs to all of us.
     
  18. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    It's just that the people saying so can't quite explain how, except by trying to claim that subpoenas are now somehow unconstitutional.

    Grand juries can subpoena documents and witnesses. The attorney in this case is acting on their behalf in issuing those subpoenas.

    This isn't new. This is how our criminal courts work.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'lll stand to be correct I thought both had gone through Mueller but that being said again

    Feds’ probe into Trump hush money payments is over, judge says
    A federal probe into hush money payments made to protect Donald Trump during the 2016 presidential campaign has concluded, according to a judge’s order released Wednesday.

    At issue is an investigation led by the Southern District of New York connected to Michael Cohen, the former personal lawyer to Trump who is serving a three-year prison term in part for breaking campaign finance law. Trump himself was implicated in Cohen’s crimes, which involved hush money payments to women that federal prosecutors have said were designed to sway the presidential election.
    Cohen cooperated with federal prosecutors as part of his plea deal with the government, but their wider effort is now over, U.S. District Court Judge William Pauley wrote in a three-page order.

    “The Government now represents that it has concluded the aspects of its investigation that justified the continued sealing of the portions of the Materials relating to Cohen’s campaign finance violations,” Pauley wrote.

    The judge, an appointee of President Bill Clinton, made the disclosure in a ruling on a related matter dealing with the release of sealed information contained in already-public search warrants tied to the Cohen case. Pauley rejected the government’s request to keep some of the search warrant materials in the Cohen case sealed and instead ordered it publicly released by 11 a.m. Thursday.

    Pauley also said the government must publicly release a status report it filed earlier this week under seal that acknowledges the end of the wider Trump Organization campaign finance probe.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/17/trump-hush-money-payments-probe-over-1418074

    What SDNY investigation and evidence are you talking about? It is VANCE and the state of New York that is investigating and in court not the SDNY. If the SDNY had such evidence why wasn't it turned over to the FEC and where are those charges?
     
  20. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    The DA doesn't "issue" subpoena's. Like you pointed out, the grand jury issued the subpoena. That is the COURT issued it. How can you acknowledge this fact in one line, and then on the following line claim I'm playing "make believe"? I'm reading the amendment, applying some basic english to it and what it reads out to what anyone consciously can think and interpret.

    If the DA could issue subpoena's, there'd be no reason for a court to have that power. If a DA could subpoena tax records and investigate tax records, why do we have the IRS and why does the IRS have the power to bring those cases if the DA can simply bring it, itself?

    These are logical inconsistencies that you can't swat away by insulting me, just like the inconsistencies as it applies to the Fourth Amendment. The court erred greatly today, and in so doing all of us are less free than we were before.
     
  21. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    You can either be someone who can be capable of participating in a discussion or someone who insults me. If you insult me a third time, you're going on the ignore list.
     
  22. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    the virus? no it’s it’s real...but how the dems hard responded has been....

    what does that have to do with the left getting shot down in court again? and the court highlighting how they think th s is a fishing trip?
     
  23. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    he didn’t...it was a complete return and he admit what she got illegally was his return therefore it was released.

    other then learning he paid more in taxes then obama made, what did you learn?
     
  24. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    mueller turned over the case to sdny to prosecute.

    can you show me where mueller or sdny said they have evidence trump committed a crime? why didn’t they turn that over to congress to impeach on?

    yes we have seen selective leaks by dems in congress for years...that always ends up flat.
     
  25. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    He does have a streak of independence on cases involving Tribes.
     

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