Transcript of George Floyd's murder prove that he was cooperating

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Jul 8, 2020.

  1. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have said numerous times that he should not have been killed. I am only stating that resisting lead up to that. If there had been no resisting, he would likely be alive today. Blacks are practically taught to resist by their leadership and people like Kaepernick when they say that the police are evil. .That needs to change. Merely reforming the police will not accomplish what BLM wants to happen.
     
  2. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Which doesn't give them the right to use excessive force. The 5th circuit has held, for instance, that when you have a subject you know or suspect to be on drugs and you restrain them face down with their arms and legs restrained, you have used excessive force because their resistance does not merit deadly force and hog tying someone in excited delirium is a death sentence you hand out. That's not even in a case where you put your knee on his carotid and sit down on it for 10 minutes or so.

    He'd have to be offering far more actual threat to the officers to be amenable to deadly force. There were 4 of them on the call out and he was already handcuffed. Hell they actually GET him in the car then PULL him back out. Chauvin acknowledges excited delirium, doesn't care.
    That's excessive force leading to a homicide, generally known as "murder".
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Exactly. He was cooperating. The cop asked him to do something that was humanly impossible for him to do. The cop didn't know that. Solution: cut funding to the police and give it to people who do know.

    If the police is incapable of fulfilling their role to serve and protect, and can only kill and arrest, then we need to change them for people who can. Easy as that.
     
  4. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    Resisting arrest is not a death penalty crime. And you don't know that if he had gotten in the car that he would be alive. Perhaps he would have said or done something else that would have led the officer to harm him. You're argument makes two false assumptions. 1) cops are always right, and 2) resisting arrest means they can do whatever they want to you. Neither is accurate.
     
    Golem and Reality like this.
  5. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I have gotten bad checks from clients. It's usually a mistake they made so I just call them and they use another form of payment. Sending the police to arrest them never crossed my mind. Once I had to get an attorney involved, and they recovered twice the amount. Which just about covered his fees. He told me it would've been three times if we had gone to small claims court, but I just didn't want to bother. I have never heard of anybody being arrested for passing a bad check.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  6. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    They have to KNOW they were passing a bad check. Met a (former) judge who had caught the rap before. Valentines day and he hadn't deposited his paycheck. Bought flowers with a check anyway. Real ****ing dumb.
     
  7. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    @kriman would've sent him to jail, it looks like. And if he just happened to be black and had claustrophobia, @kriman would authorize the cop to kill him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  8. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    That's what I'm saying. He got convicted and punished (though its mostly punishable with redress and a fine unless you get fresh with the judge at court or have no money. Jail time for a one time offense you can pay for isn't really a thing) Mostly because he pled as part of a deal to keep his law license
     
  9. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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  10. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    That must be right next to the part where it tells black people to punch the cops and then grab their taser and that only white people can pass out drunk in a drive thru....:rolleyes:
     
  11. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    "Chauvin asked whether Floyd was going to jail, and the officers pulled him from the car. “Get him down on the ground,” Chauvin said."
    ^ Murder. No need to pull him from the car, he's restrained, sitting up, no danger to the officers behind the closed door. Instead they drag him out, lay him out even though they all think he's on drugs and one of them just LITERALLY stated they thought they were going to give him a heart attack, and then they sit on his carotid causing mechanical asphyxiation after 2 of the officers point out that hey we were trained not to do this and don't gainsay their superior. I was just following orders is not a valid legal excuse to murder.

    "
    The transcripts show Lane asked Chauvin several times whether Floyd should be moved.

    “No, leave him,” Chauvin told him. “Staying put where we got him.”

    Lane told Chauvin he was worried about “excited delirium,” citing a term used by medical examiners to describe the sudden in-custody death of people who may be under the influence of drugs or in an agitated state.

    “That’s why we got the ambulance coming,” Chauvin said.

    “Okay, I suppose,” Lane replied. A few seconds later, he told Chauvin that he believed Floyd had passed out. When an off-duty firefighter on the scene pressed the officers to check Floyd’s pulse, Kueng couldn’t find one.

    “Huh?” Chauvin replied, according to the transcript.
    "

    "Video shows that Chauvin removed his knee from Floyd’s neck only when prodded by a paramedic."

    Left his knee on the dude's neck after KNOWING he had no vitals. Only removed it when the paramedic pushed him off. Murder.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  12. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He resisted arrest. Simple as that. Don't resist and you improve your chances of living significantly. Your post illustrates much of the problem. The police are automatically found to be at fault by a large segment of the population, mainly blacks. Blacks go into the arrest with a bad attitude. That attitude is perpetuated by too many people, especially black leadership.

    As I have mentioned before, how many deaths has Kaepernick caused by encouraging blacks to resist? Changing the police will not solve the problem. Regardless of what you call them or who does it, there will be the need to arrest. If you say, we are not going to arrest you because we are afraid you are going to be killed or injured, that is the same as a "get out of jail card".
    Floyd was a felon. It is doubtful that trying to pass a bad check was accidental. People do get arrested for intentionally passing bad checks.
    Don't misquote, please. The cop is not authorized to kill anyone. They may find that the killing was justified under the specific circumstances, but that is not the same as being authorized.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  13. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    That is literally the same as it being authorized. If its considered justified then you were authorized to kill the man when and how you did it. Period. Normally a suspect has to present an imminent threat to life or limb of the public or the officers for deadly force to be justified. Handcuffed in a squad car which is his state before they put him on his chest, hog tied, while one of them sits on his carotid artery, when they know to be worried about excited delirium and openly voice these concerns, he is no threat. Outside the car, with 3 cops on him, while handcuffed and doing little but squirming and bitching, he's still no threat.
    That whole hog tied thing? The 5th circuit at least considers that bit to be deadly force. 5th ain't 8th but still.
     
  14. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    “Stop resisting Floyd!” Shawanda Renee Hill, a witness inside the car, called out, according to the transcript of the footage from Lane’s camera.

    Lane asked Floyd whether he was on drugs while Kueng pointed out the “foam” around his mouth. But Floyd insisted he was on “nothing” and had been playing basketball earlier.

    “Man, you’re going to die of a heart attack,” one of the officers told Floyd. “Just get in the car.”

    Floyd began to bleed from the mouth, after bumping his head inside the vehicle, and Lane called emergency medical help to the scene. Floyd began to complain that he couldn’t breathe.

    As the officers held Floyd to the ground, Chauvin asked the other officers whether Floyd was “high.” Kueng told him they’d found “a pipe on him.” Floyd again told the officers he couldn’t breathe. “You’re doing fine. You’re talking fine,” Kueng said, as Lane told him to take a “deep breath” and Chauvin told him to “relax.”

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Let's see .... cops found a pipe on him ..... he's acting so erratic they had to pull him out of the car ..... he "can't breathe" due to "having COVID", yet had "been playing basketball".

    Chavin seemed surprised that Floyd had to pulse (huh?). I don't see murder 2 here, which is what Chauvin is charged with.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  15. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not at all. Being authorized means you can legally go in with the intent to kill. Justified means that during the conduct of the arrest, you end up killing him because there is no other reasonable alternative at the time. There is a subtle, but important difference.

    I am not sure how many times I have to keep repeating this. His death was not necessary under any circumstances and the cop needs to be punished. The only issue is whether it was first, second or third degree murder.
     
  16. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    I'm seeing involuntary manslaughter from a reading of Minnesota statutes and the facts as we know them to date, but that's for a jury to decide.
     
  17. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Stop resisting floyd comes before they get him out of the car and sat down ffs. Long before they sit on his neck and kill him.

    By the time they pull him back out, they've got him in the car and the ambulance is on the way. He's no threat to them or himself restrained in the back seat. Chauvin then yanks him out, puts him on the ground, discovers he's likely high on cocaine or meth since they found a ****ing pipe on him, puts him in the stress position he KNOWS and has been TRAINED not to put a coked out/methed out suspect in because it WILL ****ing kill him, gets warned about it twice by the other officer whom he overrides, notices he has no vitals, effects surprise by this, and CONTINUES TO SIT ON HIS ****ING CAROTID until a medic LITERALLY shoves him off the dead man.

    Putting such a suspect in such a position is use of deadly force. Deadly force is only authorized when the suspect presents an imminent threat to life and limb of the officers. He does not present such a threat handcuffed with 3 cops manhandling him.

    That's felony excessive force, leading to a homicide, which is known as felony murder. Under MN law, that concept is nested under "Murder 2". Since the other officers were also trained and brought up that he was slowly murdering the man and did nothing, they're abetters of the felony and amenable to felony murder as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  18. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Excessive force is an intentional tort/crime. When someone dies but you did not intend it when you are committing an intentional tort/crime, the mens rea on the homicide is "recklessness" not "intent". Hence murder 2 is the appropriate charge under MN law, if you'll look carefully you'll see the felony murder section. They're being charged under the felony murder theory of murder 2.
     
  19. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Justified means you were authorized in the moment you committed the act. Authorized means you were justified. There is no distinction in American Jurisprudence. We don't have licenses to kill or carte blanche. We have a reasonableness test based on various factors.

    This homicide was not justified. Nor was it authorized. It stems from an excessive and therefore illegal use of force which led to a man's apparently reckless rather than intentional death. He committed a felony, a man died, felony murder is the proper charge.
     
  20. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    So he was arrested when they received the check? Has to be a real s-hole business that would do that to a client.
     
  21. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Punch the cops? Oh... I see. You just make crap up as you go...
     
  22. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    It was a chain grocery. He wasn't a "client" he was a consumer customer who intentionally wrote a hot check. So they filed a report. When they came to jam him up about it, he knew no matter what he'd have to report it to the bar and the judicial disciplinary committee. And judges are elected in Texas so he pretty much wasn't going to catch another term and might have to resign.
    SO he resolved to plead out and keep his law license by throwing himself on his sword.
    It worked, he kept it. Deal came with a mug shot though
     
  23. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    So what? It shows he was resisting.

    It is precisely because he was a threat to himself that they pulled him out of the car.

    Floyd began to bleed from the mouth, after bumping his head inside the vehicle, and Lane called emergency medical help to the scene. Floyd began to complain that he couldn’t breathe. “I just had COVID, man,” Floyd said. “I can’t breathe. I can’t breathe. Please one of you listen to me.”

    Doesn't seem so.

    Chauvin asked whether Floyd was going to jail, and the officers pulled him from the car. “Get him down on the ground,” Chauvin said.

    Video shows that Chauvin removed his knee from Floyd’s neck only when prodded by a paramedic.

    So "prodded" becomes "LITERALLY shoves him"? Your hyperbole throughout is over the top. Let's just leave it at you have your opinion and I have mine.
     
  24. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How many times do I have to repeat it? Floyd's death was not justified. There is no argument on that subject.
    .
     
  25. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    He assaulted the cops, how do you think he got the taser?
     

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