Supreme Court Gave 1/2 Oklahoma To Creek Nation Indians

But the Treaty still stands, the SCOTUS says so. And are you willing to say that no other nation in the world can ever trust our treaties again?

Didn't the Cherokee already have the Court rule in its favor back before they were forcibly removed to Oklahoma to begin with?

 

Too late. They've already danced the dance, sang the song, and counted to three. A native never goes back on his word.....never steals, lies, kills, covets, rapes, conquers, or does anything untoward that might cause justice to come down on him like the hand of God........or the western migration of Europeans.

 

But you said that half of Oklahoma is now under Federal jurisdiction. Wouldn't that be taking rights away from the State? Also, wouldn't that increase the power of the Federal government?

Since the State is smaller than the Federal government, and since the smaller a government is the more representative it is of the will of the people, and the larger and stronger a government is, the less representative it is of the individual, doesn't it man that the stronger the Federal government, the more tyrannical it is, and the less freedom people have?

This is why our Founding Fathers, who were highly enlightened, gave more power to the States when creating this country - which was so inconceivable in that day and age. That they succeeded was thanks to the French, Germans and the Russians who helped us - no doubt because they hated Britain.

 

No one is talking about cancelling land or home deeds. No one is talking about giving the land back to the Native Americans. All this deals with is who will preside over criminal trials. In most areas, you have a local, state and federal jurisdiction that overlaps. All this ruling does is ensure that local Judges are represents the tribal council, and all other criminals would be tried in a federal court. I doubt that the local population will notice any real difference.

Now, if you really want to rant about someone being hurt by actions from more then a century ago, they the whole African-American reparation scam.

 

Thanks for clarifying it.

 

No, I said Native Americans on the land in question will be tried under federal jurisdiction.

 

If what you say is correct then it is basically meaningless. Sounds like something on which the federal government would spend time and money.

 

There's nothing illegal about a government using another law to repeal a past law, and make no mistake, treaties are on equal footing with ordinary statutes in the US. There is nothing illegal about unilaterally repealing the treaty - the US is a sovereign nation, inherent to that is the idea that legislatures cannot pass laws which reduce the lawmaking ability of future legislatures.

Indeed they don't even need to formally repeal it. Any law that conflicts with a prior treaty is inherently legal.

So pass a law allocating the Eastern half of the state of Oklahoma to the state of Oklahoma. Infact, do it with all Indian reservations - equality under the law matters, you are all citizens. States control very little land out West, change this by unilaterally abolishing these treaties right now, without discussion.

 

Treaties are not superior to ordinary statutes. They can be ignored by subsequent law, or repealed without consent of the other party. Law that comes after is superior to law which comes before.

Indeed they lack the democratic legitimacy of typical acts of Congress as they have become a way to bypass the people's House and do things with the indirectly elected elitists in the Senate and WH.

In the modern age we do a huge amount of things via treaty for the same reason - it lets governments pass laws without sufficient consent of the governed. Treaties have become a loophole to pass law.

The court can rule whatever it likes, but it is doing so on the word of Congress. The ruling was bases on Congress not making explicit what everyone has known for a century. If Congress changes its tune and makes it explicit the court has no recourse except openly lying ala FDR era.

 

I like that it took less than a page for Soros to get dragged into this. Goebbels would be proud.

 

Take a US civics lesson and then try again!!!!

 

Going by what you say there is nothing whatsoever that makes any Treaties binding on the US, and since we do and have had treaties for centuries which other nations seem to respect I don't agree with you.

 

Oh bullshit too. What you're saying would affect our standing as a nation in regard to other nations. The Congress can't simply repudiate treaties willy-nilly. It can do so but it's not an easy process.

 

Laws passed by Congress that are contrary to treaties passed prior are still the law of the land. To the degree that they conflict the one passed last wins.

If they want to formally withdraw from a treaty afterwards they can, or they can just ignore it. There is nothing illegal about this.

In terms of decline in reputation, that is a balancing act. There are things worth bearing the burden for, others that are not.

 

as a nation, we are only as good as our word

 

You went back on your word over a hundred years ago, it's time to formalize it to avoid this ridiculous situation.

 

I didn't, but people long dead did, I do not think we alive today should

 

It wouldn't be smart to even entertain that idea unless we had some sort of an "Indian War" and all options were on the table. Oklahomans--natives and non natives wouldn't be for treaty nullification.

I read that the state and the Muscogee are working together on congressional legislation...I'm curious on what's being worked out as the article didnt say.

 

What part of them give an expiration date?

The patriot act and other legislation contain "sunset" clauses but are always renewed.

 

Right. We ****ed the 1st Nations proper in the last century, now it's time to double down. Let's show the rest of the world that we're not just idiots but dishonest idiots. Simpletons who can't be trusted either.

 

Try what again? I'm not allowed an opinion?

 

Well if Soros doesn't want to get dragged into things, then maybe he should stop supporting groups like Black lives matter or Antifa. As long as he has his political hand in everything, then he has to expect condemnation.

 

So, the natives own half of Oklahoma now? This is the beginning of making white people angry and they will mass emigrate away from those lands. Just like I thought they would.

 

just think of the casinos the Indians can build now!!

 

This has been the understanding for over a century, Gorsuch doesn't think Congress sufficiently formalized it.

So do so.