16 Bible Verses That Teach The Bible Is The Word Of God.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by JAG*, Jul 2, 2020.

  1. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Ya know, the Bible didn't even exist as such until hundreds of years after its constituent texts had been written by its various authors, so it's rather silly to sit there and claim that it references itself in any way.
     
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  2. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    They didn't mention Paul either.
    Or John the Baptist.
    Or Luke.
    Or Matthew, Mark, or John.
    The Scriptures were given progressively --- not all at one time.
    There was a time when all there was, was:
    Genesis
    Exodus
    Leviticus
    Numbers
    Deuteronomy

    Actually for all I know there could have been a time when there
    was only Genesis. I mean I doubt that Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus,
    Numbers, and Deuteronomy were all written on the SAME DAY.

    At some point the Biblical canon was finally assembled. I'd have to
    google it to find out. But why bother, its was some date in history
    when the 66 books of the Bible was finally assembled into the
    Biblical canon.

    Thanks for your comments.

    JAG

    ``
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  3. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Much appreciated.
    JAG previously Wrote In The Opening Post:
    "Note to atheists:
    Atheists know a lot about the Bible.
    They really do. I know it.
    Here below are 16 Bible verses that many Christians have marked in their
    Bibles. You can learn something here.
    Plus you can post some "astute snide unfriendly hostile" remarks
    if you want to.
    I won't mind.
    Enjoy___JAG
     
  4. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    How do you know I wasn't standing up when I wrote the
    Opening Post? {There was one politician-dude in DC that
    had a stand-up desk.. I forgot his name.}
    ______-

    JAG previously Wrote In The Opening Post:
    "Note to atheists:
    Atheists know a lot about the Bible.
    They really do. I know it.
    Here below are 16 Bible verses that many Christians have marked in their
    Bibles. You can learn something here.
    Plus you can post some "astute snide unfriendly hostile" remarks
    if you want to.
    I won't mind.
    Enjoy___JAG

    __________

    Thanks for your comment. It was heart-warning.

    JAG


    ``
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  5. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    If you don't like comments that are not in line with your thinking maybe you should post them in a forum that limits posting to members of your cult. I guess you know what the definition of smug is. Making claims based on circular logic and then implying you are above the laws of logic is IMHO smug. I was punched in the face at the age of 16 for refusing to go to church and worship a magic man in the sky. I have see a lot of people mentally damaged by your religion. This is my driver for posting. You are smug because you try to establish rules for responding to your post that are in addition to the rules established by PF which I follow. This is not your forum so you can't make the rules.
     
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  6. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's interesting that you're determined to post arguments you feel support your position, but entirely dismiss anything that does not support your position. That makes for a very one-sided "conversation" and "debate," you know. Like arguing with a wall.
     
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  7. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    JET3534,
    You write absurd nonsensical posts.
    Your posts are childish.
    Your posts are at the Third Grade level of maturity.

    Did I seek you out and try to get you to come over here to visit this thread? No I did not.

    Did anyone else FORCE you to come over here to this thread? No they did not.

    Are you aware that participation in threads is 100% voluntary? Yes you know that.

    So?

    So explain to the thread and to your "friends" how I am being "smug."
    smug - having or showing an excessive pride in oneself

    So explain to the thread and to your "friends" how I am being "in your face."

    So explain to the thread and to your "friends" how I have "claimed superiority."

    I did NOT seek you out.
    YOU were the one that sought me out.
    I did NOT ask you to come over here and read my Opening Post.
    That was 100% YOUR idea.

    I like comments.
    Not absurd ridiculous childish one-sentence mini-rants
    like YOU post.
    I don't have a cult.

    YOU don't get to tell me what the laws of logic are.
    I am not interested in your childish Third Grade level insults.

    Sorry to hear that.
    THAT has got zero to do with me.

    False.
    You can post your drivel to your heart's content.
    I will reply as I see fit and point out the childishness
    and immaturity and silliness of your posts.


    ``
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  8. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    There is no "conversation" or "debate" with atheists
    on this forum. There is only insults and mockery and
    ridicule of Christianity.

    My view:
    You have no more intention of carrying on a civil
    discussion that I have of going to the moon.
    You're here to insult and mock and ridicule
    Christianity with such as this:

    "Ya know, the Bible didn't even exist as such until
    hundreds of years after its constituent texts had
    been written by its various authors, so it's rather
    silly to sit there and claim that it references itself
    in any way."
    ___Durandal

    I have tried many times to have a civil discussion
    with atheists on this forum and every time it ends
    up with them mocking and ridiculing Christianity.


    ``
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  9. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    You shouldn't be so quick to generalize. I love having a conservation and debate about religion, and I do my best to avoid any insults or mockery. I stick to the facts as I see them, as I have done so far in this thread. If you feel I have been uncivil, please point it out.

    Do you feel that what I said about the bible is somehow mocking and ridiculing Christianity? I simply pointed out the facts - the Bible's disparate texts were not written as part of the book, but as various religious tomes and letters by different authors and at different times. The Bible, such as it is (in fact, there are different versions of it accepted by different groups, not to mention the compendia of Islam and Judaism that include some, but not all, of what various versions of what the Christian Bible include), was created by a committee of Roman Catholics. Christianity as we know it today is more a Roman imperial religion than anything else. Many Christian concepts, e.g. sacraments (a Latin word!) are purely of Roman Catholic origin as well, not not specified at all in the Bible, which again is a compendium of disparate texts taken together as one whole by later interpreters, who then draw connections between elements of these disparate texts in order to fashion an overarching narrative, and numerous disagreements have arisen in this process, of course.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  10. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Okay I will apologize for being to quick to generalize.
    Sorry I misjudged you.
    And thank you for your comments up there, I appreciate
    you taking the time to explain and to write that up.

    I read what you wrote and I could tell you put some
    time and thought into it.

    Thank you.

    Best.

    JAG



    ``
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  11. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is still not a response, though. Do you disagree with anything I've said? If so, on what basis? I know that Christianity is based in blind faith, of course, but do you acknowledge this? If so, why is that acceptable to you? People can (and do) believe all manner of things on blind faith, often things that disagree with Christianity. It pretty much depends on their culture, on where they (or even when) they are born and raised. You might just as easily have been a Hindu or Muslim making similar proclamations about one of those faiths had you been born in a different place.
     
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  12. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    I will come back and talk to you asap.
    I'm having some computer tech problems so if I am delayed
    your will know why.
    Thanks for your interest in discussion.

    JAG
     
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  13. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    The people claiming to be Christian - for the most part - do not seem to know who assembled their Canon. None of them can state the criteria used to determine false scripture from valid scripture.
     
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  14. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    So God sacrificed himself to himself to save you from a hell he created. How does this even begin to make sense?

    A President can pardon a Federal crime. A State Governor can pardon a State crime. But God can only forgive a crime against God by sacrificing himself to himself?
     
  15. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    A very good question. I believe the answer actually lies in a common idea in that period of history of gaining immortality through worship of the sun (or a divine figure representing it/represented by it), based on its apparent "death" and "resurrection" at Winter Solstice. Jesus was, if I am right, essentially another Sol Invictus and Mithras, who also had cults in Rome and represented the immortal sun. The cult of Mithras was so similar to Christianity that it was jealously stamped out and knowledge of it erased, even literally from the walls of their old worship halls.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus

    The ancient world was chock full of cults and superstition, as you might well expect during a period when science as we know it didn't yet exist and people didn't even know that the earth revolved about the sun, let alone so much else that we take for granted today.
     
  16. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Does that mean you want to have a polite civil discussion?
    Or are you setting me up for the usual?
    Be back tomorrow to find out.
    {unless my computer "goes out" on me.}

    ``
     
  17. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Let's have a polite discussion.
     
  18. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    I have heard people speak on the cult of Mithras being somewhat like the early Christians. Thanks for the reference.
     
  19. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Very much so. They all had celebrations on December 25th, too.
     
  20. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    @JET3534

    My view is that God is Sovereign and He was the one that supernaturally
    assembled the 66 books of the Bible and He did that by working through
    His chosen men who over the years assembled the Biblical canon. This is
    a Faith belief based on 2 Timothy 3:14-17

    Christianity is based on Faith, true.
    But not Fideism.
    Fideism is blind faith meaning there is zero evidences for the
    existence of God and for the truth of Christianity. This is not
    true, there are well over 18 arguments for the existence of
    God. However none of them rise to the 2 + 2 = 4 level of
    certainty. So what good are they? They are a lot of good
    because they have a high level of Probability. This is
    subjective. Probability is subjective. That means that
    our personal biases and prejudices and presuppositions
    are going to be heavily involved in deciding just what
    level of Probability there is in each of those arguments.
    We can use a % scale.to grade them.
    Here are 20 of them:
    http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm

    10%
    20%
    30%
    40%
    50%
    60%
    70%
    80%
    90%
    99%
    ______

    No 100% because 100% is a 2 + 2 = 4 level of certainty.

    Basically Christianity is a Faith.
    The reason it is acceptable to me is because of the
    supernatural work of the Holy Spirit in my life that
    has made Christianity real to me.
    You asked so I had to tell you the truth.
    You can {and probably will} find other explanations for
    this experience.
    But remember you asked ME. So I gave you the truthful
    answer.
    You have to actually experience it in order to believe it.

    That is all true.
    By the way, I do not know , , , using know to mean 2 + 2 = 4 certainty
    that the Hindus and Muslims will not be included in those who are
    saved. Many theologians believe that people who live according to
    the "light they have" can be saved. I don't know so I don't say.

    Here is what Billy Graham said on that:

    "I think that everybody that loves or knows Christ, whether they are
    conscious of it or not, they are members of the body of Christ ... [God]
    is calling people out of the world for his name, whether they come
    from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world or the non-believing
    world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they have
    been called by God. They may not know the name of Jesus but
    they know in their hearts that they need something they do not
    have, and they turn to the only light they have, and I think that
    they are saved and they are going to be with us in heaven.[134]"
    ___Billy Graham

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Graham#Ecumenism



    ``
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
  21. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Okay.
    See my post to Durandel up there. I just wrote it.
    Consider it addressed to you too.
    I put @JET3534 at the top of the post.

    JAG
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To suggest that God was the one who put together the 66 Books of the Bible does not pass the smell test.
    Faith should not include dispensing with logic and reason.

    This is not to say there was not some inspiration from God in some of the writings - but for the whole thing to be literally Gods word is something that vast majority of the Church does not accept - and for good reason.

    It is only the extremists that buy into this idea - Fundamentalist Evangelicals and Pentecostals.

    "2 Timothy" - written 100-140 ad - was not written by Paul - so you are suggesting that God is guilty of Pious Fraud ?

    and that is just for starters.
     
  23. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Those 20 arguments are awful.
     
  24. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    That kind of a response saves me a lot
    of time.

    You and I both know that you have not read
    those 20 arguments and actually come to grips
    with all 20 of them.

    My view is that you could not stand your ground
    in a debate with say William Lane Craig, in front
    of an audience debating eg. the Kalam Argument.
    My view is that you'd be howled out of the room
    in less than 35 minutes.

    Your "Those arguments are awful" is no more
    than your personal assertion and your personal
    opinion.

    You quote my entire post.

    Amazing that you'd quote my entire post in
    order to make your short one-liner 5 words
    personal assertion-personal opinion about
    some arguments at a website I linked you
    to --- that we both KNOW you could not
    refute if your life depended upon it.

    You ignore all the good and interesting points
    I made in my post to you --a post that I invested
    some time in writing. You post a mini-short
    one-liner 5 word personal assertion ignoring
    all the points I made in my post to you --- a post
    designed to stimulate a conversation.

    I wrote my post to you in response to your
    comments here:

    Durandal Wrote:
    "This is still not a response, though. Do you disagree
    with anything I've said? If so, on what basis? I know
    that Christianity is based in blind faith, of course, but
    do you acknowledge this? If so, why is that acceptable
    to you? People can (and do) believe all manner of
    things on blind faith, often things that disagree with
    Christianity. It pretty much depends on their culture,
    on where they (or even when) they are born and
    raised. You might just as easily have been a Hindu
    or Muslim making similar proclamations about one
    of those faiths had you been born in a different place.
    End quote.

    Your response was "Those 20 arguments are awful."

    I will tell you what I think: I don't think there is going
    to be any productive exchange between you and I.

    I do NOT think that you are going to be looking for
    points of agreement, rather I think you are going to
    be constantly looking for opportunities to do nothing
    more than constantly DISAGREE and be critical of
    Christianity and my views. And that's fine and dandy
    for some people, but not for me --- nonetheless see
    the PS below.

    I have no interest in me going to the trouble to present
    my views to you, believing that you are going to be
    constantly adversarial in your approach. You'll have
    to find somebody else to play that game with.

    JAG

    PS
    You can prove me wrong easy enough. All you have
    to do is write me a post of some length where you
    find points of agreement so that the conversation
    can move forward.

    PSS
    The picture in your avatar says a lot. The man ;looks
    very angry and ill-tempered, unhappy, and appears to
    be "looking for a fight." Appears to be 100% adversarial.


    ``
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  25. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    It may not pass YOUR smell test, but it does pass my
    smell test and also passes the smell test of the Christian
    Church At Large.

    I did not "suggest" anything, rather I boldly said this:

    JAG Wrote:
    "My view is that God is Sovereign and He was the one that supernaturally
    assembled the 66 books of the Bible and He did that by working through
    His chosen men who over the years assembled the Biblical canon. This is
    a Faith belief based on 2 Timothy 3:14-17"___JAG

    ~ And it does NOT do that.
    ~ There are many logical arguments that support the truth of Christianity.
    ~ Also I note that YOU do not have the power and authority
    to proclaim what is, or is not, logical and reasonable.

    False.

    You don't speak for the "vast majority of the Church."

    There are over 2.3 billion Christians in the Christian
    Church and YOU do NOT know what the "vast majority
    believes" on this issue.

    Don't just sit there at your computer starring at the screen
    go get clear and solid proof that the "vast majority" of the
    Christian Church does not believe that the whole Bible is
    the inspired word of God --- and put it up here in this thread.
    This is your opportunity to shine and demonstrate your
    research skills. Prediction: You will NOT do it. Because
    you CANNOT do it.


    My view is that your posts are extremist and that you present
    extremist views.

    Also you labeling Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, and Pentecostals
    as extremists tells me all I need to know about your views and
    positions.

    ~ False.
    ~ That's your personal proclamation.
    ~ You could not prove that Paul did not write 2 Timothy if
    you were offered $100,000,000 to do so.

    ~ False.
    ~ You have no authority to identify what is, or is not, a "Pious Fraud."

    ~ Your "starters" were no better than will be your "enders."
    ~ Your "starters" were nothing more than your personal opinions
    and personal proclamations.

    JAG


    ``
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020

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