Oops! UAE Jets Bomb Turks At Al-Watiya Airbase In Libya

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Jeannette, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No love by the Arabs I guess. It appears the jets bombed some new Turkish installations and the Turks are freaking out. Right now there's a lot of movement of Turkish ships and jets in the Eastern Mediterranean - no doubt heading for Libya.

    Seems like Erdogan is ready to fight the world and throw us all into WWIII? But then again he is a megalomaniac, and very reminiscent of Adolph Hitler. In Iraq, Turkey is bombing the Kurds and the Iraqi army is lined up at the border. Same goes with the Egyptian army at the Libyan border. In Idlib, Turkey is attacking the Syrian army and trying to consolidate it's position. France is against them, and they're flying over Greek airspace and waters and laying claims to territory that does not belong to them.

    Bravo to the bravery of the UAE. :applause:

    Turkey is incensed by Saturday's attack targeting the strategic al-Watiya air base in Libya that damaged Turkish air defence systems, with officials warning it will likely escalate the conflict in the North African country.

    “The only thing I can say is this: whoever did this made a big mistake,” a Turkish official familiar with the issue told Middle East Eye. “There will be retribution.”

    Several sources told MEE last month that Turkey was planning to establish a permanent presence at the al-Watiya base. The attack on Saturday evening came hours after Turkish Defence Minister Hulusi Akar had paid a visit to Libya.


    https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkey-libya-watiya-attack-vows-retribution
     
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  2. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Russian military group Wagner, has now taken over the major Libyan city of Sirte to protect it from a Turkish attack. Sirte is the gateway to Libya's oil crescent region and Egypt told Turkey that it would be a red line if they tried to take it. It would have started a major war in the region.

    Also right after Macron spoke to Putin, the Wagner group took over the Serara oil well, which is the largest well in Libya.

    So what's going on? :confuse:





     
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  3. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The desert is getting hotter... I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what happens. I havnt heard a whole lot besides the incident with the French ship.
     
  4. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's funny that the situation in Libya with Turkey and its oil and land grabs, is not mentioned, because the situation is serious. I picked all this up from the Greek sites.

    Erdogan supports and is in cahoots with Saraj, the Muslim Brotherhood Pres. of Libya, but the city of Sirte is still in the hands of General Haftar the pres. of Parliament. The Russian Wagner forces are there to help Haftar defend the city as well as the Al Jufra air base.

    Turkish ships and jets are now heading to Sirte to blockade the city. This will be the first time that Turkey will actually use its own military and not the terrorists from Idlib to do their dirty work.

    This is from the Turkish president's communication department:

    "The Al Jufra air base has been designated as the new military target along with the city of Sirte, following the clearing of Tripoli and its environs of the Haftar elements."

    "The military base is important and necessary for the control of oil supply lines in Libya's energy-rich resources, and that it is now being defended by the Russian mercenaries (Wagnar) in support of Haftar."

    "Pres. Saraj's Libyan army wants to remove Haftar's forces from Sirte and Al Jufra with Operation Victory Roads, which began after his success in Tripoli. "
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  5. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    It's a good thing we don't depend on oil from over there.
     
  6. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The usual thing is world war when capitalism is on the brink as it is now but this time with the climate crises it would act like using nukes before people got started.

    World tension is high everywhere now. Like my daughter said some time ago, we either move into a much more humane way of living or it is curtains.
     
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  7. James Knapp

    James Knapp Well-Known Member

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    We live in the most humane period in the history of civilisation, I really do not know what the alternative may be.
     
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  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We have been moving backwards in recent years. This is a very brutal period even if the West, US in particular has the ability to destroy from their armchair so their people do not see or feel it. I can tell you that we in the UK were far far more humane in the 70's than we are now. Then we had learned the lesson of world war and the need to have restraints on would be Monopilies and Oligarchs and the working class were catching up and so having a better standard of living - helped by inflation. Thatcher sent us back to the road which led to WW2. From there whether Tory or Labour we have moved continually to the right. No one Tory or Labour in the 70's would have believed we possibly could move as far to the right as we are now and with that of course the growing inequality and suffering.

    Here is what the dictionary says humane means
    This absolutely is not the situation but would be if we wanted to avoid our extinction and were able to elect Leaders who had such temperament..

    We are at a period when the old is dying - The US empire as well as the economic system. Like I said in the post you mentioned such problems have been diverted into World War before. As we did last time we have had a rise in the left - though only left enough to be the left prior to Thatcher/Regan and we have the rise of the far right. Centrists go with the dying system but given a choice would choose the far right every time over the left. We are playing a very dangerous game even if Trump does not get re-elected as we have a very short time left to resolve things and the last thing any of us need is war.

    It is time to prepare for the future. Leaders and Empires historically do that by war. We can not afford war if we want a future. We will not get that future carrying on with the mentality we have now. We need to become more compassionate and work together to create a world suitable for humans, other beings and agriculture to survive.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  9. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Jeannette ... please don't exaggerate. how should a WW-3 be created from it? Sorry, this is not possible ...

    Yes, the Turks belong to NATO, but NATO is still primarily a defense alliance. Any actions by a member that are not also a matter jointly decided by the NATO council, e.g. the fight against the pirates off Somalia are ... they are excluded from the protection of the alliance.
    No matter what the bastard Erdogan does in Libya, it is his business and, as you know yourself, neither the USA, Russia, China nor anyone else supports the whole thing. On the contrary, in the case of the USA, because they are more on the side of Egypt than on the side of Erdogan

    And even if someone or something attacks the Turks in Turkey, Turkey must first apply to the NATO Council for Article 5 = Alliance.
    So far, it has only passed once, after 9/11 through the USA. For other matters, such as the Argentine attack on the Falklands, the UK did not request Article 5.
    And even if Turkey does, the NATO Council has to decide ... and that Article 5, in such a case with such a background, is more than unlikely.
    This is what nearly happened in the Vietnam War, where Johnson would have liked to have NATO allies in Vietnam, even if he didn't bring Article 5 into the game because it was clear for him that he wouldn't have got it in NATO Council. Only other U.S. allies outside of NATO were stupid enough to follow the U.S., e.g. South Korea and Australia.

    So stay easy with WW-3 please! ;-)
     
  10. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    WWIII won't start with Libya, but Turkey's actions will be the direct cause - and by that I don't mean Erdogan, because he's being goaded by an opposition that is extremely nationalistic. If Erdogan is not successful militarily in Libya, especially after the humiliation of being bombed by the UAE, he might be overthrown. His followers are clamoring for the land grabs he's been promising them for years, and the restoration of their former greatness.

    If on the other hand Erdogan is successful - which is doubtful, that whole part of the world will be thrown into turmoil. Egypt will be forced to go war since Sisi will not allow a Turkish controlled Libya with its massive resources, to control that part of the world.

    Besides that, there is no way Russia will allow Turkey to control the Mediterranean and further its advances into Europe - which is really what Erdogan and his followers want. Erdogan perceives himself as the successor of Sultan Mehmet II, and feels he was chosen to further his conquests for Islam, by taking over Rome and Europe.
     
  11. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    All right Jeannette and so far no objection from me ... just an addition that the United States will have to decide whether they will support Egypt or not ... you know that Egypt is also allied with the United States and 90% of the United States Equipment of the Egyptians is American (M1A1 tank, M-60A3 tank, they are the largest user of the F-16 jet after the USA etc. etc. etc. etc. ...).

    BUT ... even if it will pop terribly in Libya ... sorry, there is so far no way for a WW-3 out of it.
    NATO and the Europeans will definitely not support the Turks ... the Americans have to flip a coin whether they will help their ally Turkey or their almost ally Egypt or at least remain officially neutral, as was once the case with the Falklands War between the UK and Argentina.
    Russia may get involved, but that's not certain, but even if it does, it's purely regional in Libya, but so far there is nothing Russian.
    China is certainly and rightly angry with the United States, but the Chinese reaction will be more moderate, especially if the United States stays out of it, the Chinese will do almost nothing.
    France is maybe the only European power who will do maybe something ...
     
  12. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia is involved in Libya, but not directly since it's their mercenary Wagnar group and not their army. After Macron spoke with Putin, the Wagnar group became guards of the largest oil well in Libya.

    After the UAE jets bombed the newly installed Turkish missile defense system, the Turks were furious at the humiliation, and began sending ships and jets to blockade the important city of Sirte. The Wagnar group then arrived at Sirte to help protect it. I assume they are paid by France or the UAE, but it doesn't matter. They are Russian, so Turkey will think twice before attacking them.

    None of this though is detrimental to the US, but Erdogan could be overthrown for not giving his followers what they want. Erdogan's opponent is a war monger and very nationalistic. He's the one whose been goading and pushing Erdogan's adventurism.
     
  13. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    All so far correct and no objections ...
    Remember that I blame Erdogan since years for all the evil things he does ... so at times when you by your own attacked him when he shot down illegaly a Russian Jet in Syria I did ... but I did further when Erdogan later started cuddling with Putin and you became suddenly very calm in critic towards Erdogan.
     
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  14. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The reason I didn't condemn Erdogan that much is because his opposition is worse. The military and secular governments in Turkey have always been more aggressive than the Islamic ones. Turkey was under a military and secular government when it attacked Cyprus and grabbed 1/3 of the island. Besides that, Putin always seemed to be able to control Erdogan somewhat.

    As for Turkey and Erdogan, well today the Turkish court signed a decree making it illegal for the 1,500 year old Cathedral of Aghia Sophia to be a museum. Erdogan immediately signed a degree for it to be turned into a mosque. The Cathedral is considered a world heritage site, and when Istanbul had that massive earthquake 20 years ago, the plaster Sultan Mehmet II used to cover the mosaics when converting it into a mosque, began to fall off. Since then, there has been massive restoration on the artwork. The EU was probably footing the bill.

    Since Islam doesn't allow depictions, what is Erdogan planning to do? Will he be covering up the mosaics once again, or will he use them as blackmail, and say that he will destroy them unless he gets more money since he can't afford to remove them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  15. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    According to the Greek news, Aghia Sophia will serve as a mosque and museum, and the frescoes and mosaics will be preserved. How can they do that though, when images are prohibited in mosques?
     
  16. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Jeannette ... it's very simple what Erdogan wants:

    He wants to resurrect the Ottoman Empire. That is his goal, because that is how Turkey is again the ONLY superpower in ME and everyone else has to follow him and his will in Ankara... as well to talk to him only from outside the ME in issues belonging to it.
    That sounds idiotic, exaggerated and crazy ... without question ... but that's how the idiot ticks. Islam only plays a role here as a tool, but not as a religion like the scum like IS!

    And a little correction: The court allowed the use as a mosque, but not prohibited the use as a museum. Basically, it doesn't matter because it amounts to the same thing in the end ... and that too is a sign of Erdogan's megalomania, because of course Hagi Sophia was a symbol of power especially in the Islamic Ottoman Empire ... and because of that the Orthodox Christian faith shared with Patriaches in Moscow and later in Greece when it became independent again and was no longer part of the Ottoman territory.
     
  17. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're right, Erdogan is a megalomaniac, and he does want to resurrect the Ottoman Empire. Everything he has done is towards that end. I watched him speak and it's amazing how he plays the audience. Yet, I keep reading that he is goaded by his opposition the far right in Turkey - and if you think Erdogan is crazy, then you can imagine what they are like.

    Anyway the problem with Aghia Sophia is all the work and restoration of the mosaics and frescoes. How long can they let it function as a mosque, before threatening to destroy them since images are not allowed in mosques?
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  18. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think Erdogan's purpose is two pronged, create or rather control a corridor for refugees to Europe & of course the oil...he is a huge threat. Imagine how much money he can extort from Europe by controlling the flow of migrants...
     
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm really surprised the UAE has conducted an air bombing raid against another country. Especially one so relatively far away. The UAE is such a small country.

    Saudi Arabia might do this sort of thing, but even for them such action would be a little bit surprising and newsworthy.
    (Saudi Arabia basically has a Cold War going on with Iran, but still despite that the Saudis would rarely ever actually militarily attack any target directly; the only exception to that being Yemen and Qatar in recent years but those are its next-door neighbors, places without a strong government)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  20. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think he really holds that much leverage over Europe (or I'm not sure he does). The EU could cut off the flow themselves, if they really wanted, if there was the will and the leaders were willing to take harsh measures like other countries in the world.

    Right now the EU is just trying to get other outside non-European countries to do its "dirty work", in a manner of speaking.
    (Because the mentality that it doesn't matter if it's happening outside of Europe, so long as Europeans themselves are not the ones turning back the migrants. So interesting the double standards that exist with the severe EU criticism against Eastern European countries putting up a fence, yet the EU reliance on Turkey to handle things. Probably points to a deep subconscious sentiment, the kind of notion that you have to be White/European to be "racist", or maybe it's an "out of my backyard")
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  21. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Erdogan's already getting the money from Merkel - yet he keeps sending migrants onto the Greek islands of Lesbos, Chios and Samos. Now he considers those islands Turkish because of the large amount of migrants in the same way he considers Idlib in Syria part of Turkey because he's packed them with Turkomans from the Central Turkish states.

    Everyday, more Turkish jets are flying over the Greek islands and territorial waters, and to top it off, 3 large Turkish boats were fishing right off the coast of Mykonos. Of course Greece can't do anything, because they know Turkey is itching for a war.

    But this is the best part, France wanted sanctions on Turkey for not letting it search the cargo ship, so instead of sanctions, Merkel rewarded Turkey with 500 thousand Euros.
     
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  22. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm sure France was behind the UAE bombing. They couldn't attack Turkey directly, so they used the UAE as proxies.

    Right now the countries against Pres. Saraj and Turkey are:

    1 - Egypt, because Saraj like Erdogan are members of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Pres. Sisi fears that if they take over all of Libya, they will start influencing the Muslim Brotherhood members in Egypt.


    2 - Russia, because it had treaties with Ghadaffi and they want them restored. They're very secretive because of their relationship with Turkey and the problems in Syria.

    3 - Greece, because Saraj and Erdogan drew a map delineating the territorial waters in the Mediterranean between them. Legally those waters belong to Greece.

    4 - France, probably because they don't want to lose their oil treaties with Libya.

    5 - UAE - probably because of its connections with France.
     
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  23. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I find it interesting that the stability of Libya is very much Europe's business yet the only side making a clear attempt to stop Erdogan are the Russians, everyone else are tiptoeing around him.

    Erdogan cannot be allowed control over Libya, he will wield it ruthlessly. The situation in Africa is teetering on a knifes edge, soon it will collapse with ISIS making more progress & moving further south every day. Erdogan's connections to the Chechens & ISIS is also being ignored by all...Europe is a lamb, Merkel is a disaster for Germany.

     
  24. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I suppose you could say this is Obama and Hillary's (Secretary of State at the time) fault, for destabilizing Libya by ousting Gaddafi, and leaving a power vacuum and chaos.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  25. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would be more direct, I would say it is Obama & Hillary's fault under Soros' direction. Libya along with South Africa were the pillars of stability in Africa, the overthrow of both are no coincidence & the fact that Soros was involved in both also no coincidence. The path to open societies are after all mass migration.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
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