Give every US citizen 2 acres of land.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by modernpaladin, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is to say, we could. FedGov owns 640M acres of land.

    Now, I'm not saying we should. FedGov needs some land for military bases, infrastruture, etc. Some of that land is most valuable as public recreation. Some as protected wildlife preserve. But the bulk of it is unused. Children, minors, the elderly and/or infirm might merely be burdenned owning land. Some people have plenty of land already.

    But surely we could stand to free some of this land up for some people to live/make a living on? Homesteading used to be a thing...

    Open discussion. What could we do with some of this land? Does it all need to sit unused?
     
  2. stratego

    stratego Well-Known Member

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    What if more people are born? How do you get more land?
     
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  3. Rush_is_Right

    Rush_is_Right Well-Known Member

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    Hey you might be on to something, instead of reparations, 40 acres and a mule?
     
  4. nra37922

    nra37922 Well-Known Member

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    Got to be plenty of land available in Mexico now. Me, I want two acres of oceanfront down by San Diego.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  5. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not all land is the same, west Texas has some dirt cheap land-the problem is its in very remote and harsh areas and some have no access, as in you'd need a helicopter or permissions to access them.

    Some groups wouldn't be able to pay property taxes, and they will cry racism, classism, or whatever else.

    Homesteading is still a thing in certain areas as I understand it.

    Also, 2 acres may not be enough land to grow/raise your own food.
     
  6. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    You mean like when most people were farmers? Land isn’t necessarily the issue now, so much as access to other capital. Even then, how do you make sure the land doesn’t wind up in the hands of large businesses? I like the idea but it’s one for the 1800s, not modern day.
     
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  7. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see all unpurposed federal land auctioned to the highest American bidder. That land would then generate local, state, and federal tax revenues on top of paying down on the federal debt.
     
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  8. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People can still farm. Or run a retreat or a hunting lodge or w/e, or just retire.

    There would need to be resale restrictions. Something like a multigenerational contract (is that a Trust?) and stipulations that violation returns the land back into the homestead pool. Something along those lines.
     
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  9. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, some of the land is not useful. But a lot of it is.
     
  10. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    But most people don’t need to do those jobs. Most people need to be working in cities. Having land that’s potentially far away from their homes doesn’t work. Plus if we return it to the homestead pool, you can’t use the land as leverage for loans. That’s where the strength in the land comes from.
     
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  11. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Annex Canada.

    Im kidding.

    Its true, we may someday run out of land for people. But thats in the highly unpredictable future. Between now and then we can hope/work towards space colonization, ocean colonization, arctic habitation and even subterranian habitation, all technically possible with currently available technology and only awaiting technological refinement and appropriate allocation of resources.

    In the mean time, we have 640M acres of regular land in the US sitting unused.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
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  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People do not need to be working in cities. Have you learned nothing from Cvirus? ;) Many city jobs can be teleworked, and there are a number of reliable satelite internet companies already established, and wired connections are relatively inexpensive compared to other types of infrastructure like complex sewer systems and spaghetti bowls of freeways that urban centers require.

    Its true that homesteaders would be forfeiting their ability to leverage their home on a risky enterprise. Thats OK. By increasing the avaialable residential land in the market, we'll reduce prices across the board. Those that wish to leverage their homes for loans will still have non-homestead land they can buy to do so. I personally would never leverage my home for a loan. Maybe I'm not a very good capitalist...
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
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  13. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think we need unclaimed space to be free. We live in a period after every square inch of land has been claimed or at least explored, but before interstellar space travel.

    If you manage to get 100 light years away from Earth literally nothing Earth thinks or wants can affect you. You'll be dead before they can deliver a court summons lol.

    The basis of government is third party externalities, like when I dump my sewerage in the river and it affects people downstream - the future will demolish externalities for those with the means and will to grasp it.
     
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  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A lot of that land is pretty far away from anything and relatively useless, without any nearby supply of water, with half that land getting very little rainfall, and the other half with very long cold winters.


    I want to say I think you may very much be on to a good idea, but it would require a lot of careful creative pragmatic thinking, and probably be a little more complex than simple.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
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  15. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course there are issues to be taken into account, but I think it could be a real bipartisan move if done right.

    The left would like the poor getting some sort of assistance, the right would like the homesteading aspect and people pulling themselves out of hardship or disadvantage.

    At this point any even remotely bipartisan policy should be considered to defuse tensions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  16. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    What is with this "gimme, gimme, gimme" crapola? If you want 2 acres then earn the money to buy it.
     
  17. NightOwl

    NightOwl Banned

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    Exactly.
     
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  18. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Hey, that's socialism. Giving everyone the same, with no regard to merit, is a moral hazard.

    Give the land away like wealth is distributed, after everyone competing in a contest:
    -The top 0.1%, or 320,000 Americans get 440 acres each.
    -The top 20%, or 64 million Americans, get 8.6 acres each.
    -The bottom 80%, or 256 million Americans, get 0.34 acres each.

    What are those lazy bottom feeders going to do with all that land anyway? They'd just waste it.

    Or so goes the RW narrative.
     
  19. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Many small farms (family farms) have been going out of business steadily in the last several years...they can't compete with corporate farms.

    Do you have any idea how much money it takes to "start" a farm ?

    Will there be a school for farming for those who don't have a clue what it's about?

    How much will that cost and how long will it take?

    Then there's business school to learn how to run a farm...

    Then there's more rural schools and buses to get the farm kids to school.

    Then there will need to be more rural clinics and hospitals...

    Where would the money come from?
     
  20. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to meet the person who could support themselves on 2 acres of land.
     
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  21. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    It would turn into huge homeless encampments. Besides a small number of off the grid people America has lost it's pioneer spirit. Even immigrants come here looking to grow fat on government handouts, the spirit of those who came here and built the country all the way to the west coast is dead and forgotten. Land of the free has a whole different meaning now. It would be nice if we could herd all the rabble here onto some vast tract and wall them in and go back to being America. I'm sure all the hand wringers here at PF will read some sort racist, bigoted slant into this but imagine an America without the clutter of the current chaos. We would have a safer and stronger nation with a wartime like economy without a war, we would have a justice system that actually worked, we would have a government that actually worked for the people. In far off times we were closer to what I describe than what we are now so it's not some fantasy, if as many of us wanted this as there are those trying to destroy America that is where we would be.
     
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  22. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just the shear amount of land owned by the US government is staggering. 640 million acres is 1 million square miles. There is about 3.7 million square miles of land in the US. That means that more than one in four acres of land in the US is owned by the federal government.
     
  23. quiller

    quiller Well-Known Member

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    They could, but wind up so scrawny they'd look like a Treblinka survivor.
     
  24. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I'm thinking maybe lease it out for homesteading, rather than actually sell the title of the land permanently.

    The government would maintain property title ownership, but the poor person would get sort of a long-term lease, as long as they remained on the property.


    I do also think the government would have to provide a water supply to an area, although they could sell the water at low rates for the purpose of economic rationing and to discourage excessive waste.
    (The rates would be comparable to the cost of water anywhere else, but would still not fully cover the cost of building a pipeline out there)
    There could also be two types of water, a smaller amount of drinkable water, and then a larger amount of water fit for water crops. Maybe even a third one with an intermediate water quality for bathing or washing.

    Maybe a household gets 1 liter of drinkable water a day for free, but they have to pay for additional water beyond that; if they use more than 5 liters the price goes way up. And because many of these people are going to be irresponsible, there could be an electronic automated cut-off that would stop the flow of water if it went beyond the daily quota. Such technology is easy and cheap to implement these days. You have to assume these people will be irresponsible, and figure out technological solutions to micromanage their use of water resources. The same thing with the water to flush their toilets. Maybe a control device that only allows 3 flushes within a 3-hour period, and limits flushes to 5, or 6 or 7 if the number of flushes that prior week has averaged below 3 or 4 per day.

    So this could actually get a little complicated. Simple ideas without detail often do not work out very well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  25. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not a bad idea...but don't forget you're dealing with white folks....
    they take your land... then they give you some back...then take it away again...move you somewhere else...
    then they take that land back...it never ends.
    Ask an Indian how that worked out.
     
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