US to withdraw nearly 12,000 troops from Germany in move that will cost billions and take years

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/politics/us-withdraw-troops-germany/index.html

NATO - IMO - is more of a relic from the cold war that refuses to go gently into that good night - It became part of our common fabric.

They don't really do much any more other than have war games and occasionally a few members will team up against some middle eastern nation.

But - we have done all we can do in the ME - Russia and China will be rebuilding - so where does that leave NATO ?

The idea that Germany needs US troops stationed there for protection from some significant invasion - say by Russia or China - is simply no longer credible - for many reasons - Nuclear Holocaust being just one.

If it happens we/ they - are screwed either way - so why worry about it ?

Russia could launch a Nuclear Attack on the USA tomorrow - but I am not going to lose too much sleep tonight worrying about it because the odds are rather low - as neither nation has a death wish.

 

We can bring them all back to Georgia to protect us from Cuba.

 

Not sure why the war-mongering left wants to keep NATO around anyways.

Russia has no plans to invade Europe, they have too many business dealings there, it would crush their economy. Even if they did try to invade it's not like we won't see them building up and ship stuff over there.

I think the left is only against it because Trump is for it. If it were Obama they would be agreeing 100%.

 

Judging by German posters here, they want our troops out too. Just so we don't have to pay the same amount of rent for fewer troops.

 

Trump is doing what Obama should have done, but didn't!

Trump is 3rd worst president of the century!

 

The best way for us to counter-act the power of Russia and China is through our alliances. But our alliances mean nothing if our allies don't invest in their militaries.

Germany is one of the wealthiest nations on the planet and is easily able to defend itself so there is no point to stationing soldiers there. The EU has a vast amount of wealth and should have the military strength to carry out any military mission they desire and build bases we can use.

There is no reason we need to be there or have bases there. Lets just re-station our soldiers in the US, or in the China area where they are actually needed.

 

I don’t understand why the EU can’t create their own military.

 

We're doing it. Former US administrations used the UK to stop or slow down all EU defense initiatives but the UK is out of the way and Trump managed to motivate even the sceptic EU countries to participate in an EU army.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Structured_Cooperation

 

It is time.

 

To claim this will cost billions is asinine. Troops only stay there for a certain time anyways. They will come back regardless and we just don't send anymore. It will be done by attrition. There is no need to keep our troops there.

 

Because the left always wants as much government as it can get.

 

You are suggesting something that - while seemingly sensible on the surface - makes no sense.

Russia and China have no military power over us - and conversely - we have no military power over them - so there is nothing to counteract.

Our allies realize there is no threat - so money is better spent on infrastructure - technology - ramping up their economies to compete (against us an others) in the 3rd millennium - while we run around wasting our precious resources pretending to be the world police - neglecting our infrastructure and economic prosperity.

We are "Stupid" they are Smart. There is no "Military threat" from Russia/China not to our homeland nor to the homeland of major EU Powers - unless of course - we decide to wage war on the homeland of Russia - in which case nuke each other back into the stone age and that is that.

Exactly - EU has an economy the same size as the US - but - there is no need for soldiers in the China area ... just what exactly are these soldiers supposed to do ?

 

Let's see now, who would want Nato?

There are the Nato officers who like their fat pay checks, and then there are the business' and townsfolks who make money off the American bases. More influential though are the liberal elites in Washington, who are heavily invested in our military industrial complex. To work Congress, they need to play on the ambitions and fears of the Eastern European nations - which they can do easily through their controlled medias.

Poland still has dreams of its former empire and expansion at Russia's expense, while the Baltics who stole Russian lands when the Soviet Union broke up, and who have been keeping the Russians there in an apartheid condition so they would leave, fear that Moscow might try to free them the way it did with Crimea.

Moscow in response, and to protect all Russians who found themselves living outside of Russia, has been handing out citizenship and passports to protect them - or at least it's doing so in Ukraine. Just thinking of its neighbor next door, must be giving the Baltics frights in the night , so to relieve their angst, they want the American troops there. Of course lot's of good it will do them if we end up in a civil war, but that's something they should have thought of a long time ago.

Anyway with Russia's new constitution, the angst must have worsened. I read that Moscow now has the constitutional right to restore all of the Russian lands that were once part of its Empire.

Anyway, this is how I see things.

 

He is right, the Germans should pay more for their defence and those troops would be better employed in the Baltic which are actually under threat from the Soviets.

 

But there are no more Soviets.

I just look forward to a competent administration reviewing this decision next year. I don't know yet if it's warranted or some kind of Trump stupidity, so I have no judgment about it at this time. But I do know what we don't have troops in Germany to defend Germany, at least not primarily. That is far from our purpose in being there. Germany has its own military and provides for its own defense. We don't do that for them.

 

Trump is kissing Putins ass.

 

The NATO agreement requires all member countries to invest 2% of it GDP into it's military defense. Yet, Germany is currently investing 1.38% of their GDP. While they sit on the front lines with Russia, they expect other NATO members to take up the slack. President Trump stated that if NATO nations can not meet their contractual agreement, then the US will pull out. Right now, President Trump is only withdrawing troops from Germany. There is also talk about relocating some of them into Poland. But he is not talking about withdrawing the US membership. At least, not yet.

I support this move 100%.

 

Ah, a hardened Cold Warrior shows his age. Yes, the US uses Germany as a staging post but it can still do that from Poland and the Baltics.

 

By deploying US troops eastwards towards Russia's borders?

 

Could, but why would we? Why position ourselves closer to Russia's borders and why go to the hassle and expense of making the move?

 

What they actually said is that they would be spread around, including back home.

And that assumes this isn't one of Trump's 20,000 lies. Which I most definitely do not assume.

This is consistent with other things Trump has said, and since there is only one country on the planet that wants it, I will conclude there is a hickey on Putin's butt until proven otherwise.

 

As a deterrent? Plus Poland and the Baltics might be a lot more supportive of the US, spending that 2%

 

Good that you're so open minded!

 

Half those 12000 will be relocated to Poland and Balts....they love us there.

I hear Krakow area is supposed to host a large US airbase along with Pentagon like offices?

)....snaaake plissken?.....I heard you were dead?

 

"Relocating to Poland" -

Germany does not expect other NATO members to pick up the slack -as none of the other NATO members are spending 2% either.

The reality of the situation is that Germany simply does believe Russia is a Threat - and Germany is no more on the Front lines of Russia than the USA is - I would say there reverse is True - but it matters not - as we are not going to war with Russia - and if we do - this conversation no longer matters.

Nato is a relic of an era that no longer exists.