New Covid-19 Research has Stunning Findings!

If Covid-19 is like the flu why are ICU's filling up in hard hit states? I haven't noticed this happening with seasonal flu.

Seems rather irrelevant to the dying man whether Covid-19 was "tweaked" in a lab.

For those of you looking for the bodies, this is what NYC did with some of their dead.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ench-getting-built-nyc-s-hart-island-n1181056

 

yes I agree with you it is a more deadly than a tiny little fraction of flu. But if we count the deaths like we count covid deaths it's not a drop in the bucket.

So not counting actual deaths.

 

Correct.

When, for instance, a 75 year old person dies, there may be numerous co-morbidities.

We'd need an enormous amount of information to even begin to consider the factors in a SINGLE death, let alone thousands, to determine what may or may not have been leading or contributing causes.

 

It's amazing that you're more likely to believe that there has been a sudden excess of 160,000 deaths from usual causes but won't believe that a new virus could be the cause. Perhaps you could explain this sudden huge excess of deaths from usual causes of death?

 

Without massive amounts of information about EACH death, it's not possible to even begin to speculate in a logical fashion.

All we know it that there's a bad flu, and a bad hoax being used for political purposes.

After that, it all comes down to people dying, which we do, and for numerous intertwined causes.

 

The ChiFlu Hoax is in many ways reminiscent of prior witch hunts, from ACTUAL witch hunts of the past right up to the numerous Democrat-fueled witch hunts against Trump.

 

It's absurd - beyond absurd - to believe that in modern societies with indoor plumbing, people are going to die in huge numbers because bad flu.

The Black Death - for instance - is still with us, but few die because modern sanitation.

And the Spanish Flu had other, more serious co-morbidities.

For instance.

Unprotected butt sex with numerous partners a bad idea?

Duuuuuuuuuuuuh.

For instance.

Mammals and viruses go together lies peas and carrots, and the idea that there's suddenly a super-deadly virus out there waiting to kill us in huge numbers at the WalMart is infantile at best, absurd at middling, and extremely dangerous at worst.

ChiFlu Hoax = Hoax

Best not to be a ChiFlu Hoax dupe.

(Not saying you are, just saying best not to be one.)

 

Yup.

EACH & EVERY death must be examined and discussed MUCH more carefully than dangerous hoaxters with dangerous political agendas would ever permit.

 

Yup.

MUCH more information about each death, the circumstances of the declaration of cause, the background/training of the claimant (including their political affiliation) needed.

For EACH death.

 

So all those doctors and coroners are in on the "hoax" huh?

Jesus

 

It's weird, right?

All the people that have had it, have it, will get it - the VAST majority will be fine, and if not for this insane testing nonsense, would never even know they had it.

Viruses and mammals co-exist; to suddenly be freaked out by this is insane.

 

The NYT - which loved Hitler & repeated every insane anti-Trump hoax cooked up in the last 4 years - says there are MORE ChiFlu deaths than counted?

Alex Jones has more credibility at this point.

 

What sudden excess? Huge numbers of people die in this country every year - millions. Bad flu is bad. People die. For intertwined causes.

 

Not what was said.

Logic

 

Fascinating that it's the usuals suspects - the dangerous politically motivated hoaxters and virulent anti-Trump alarmists - championing the ChiFlu Hoax.

Coincidence?

I think not.

 

No, you are underestimating viruses. Sanitation/promiscuity is for those transmitted by body fluids (Ebola, HIV), infestations, etc (mosquitoes, rats, ticks, etc). But if you have a respiratory virus with airborne transmission and it is very infectious (this one has had a R0 calculated up to 5.7 and in certain crowded conditions in large cities up to 18 which is measles-grade), if there is a long incubation period so that people move around before being sick, and a period of asymptomatic transmission when they are already shedding the virus but don't have symptoms yet to be spotted and quarantined, and if it's novel (just recently jumped from animals to humans) and nobody has good built-in immunity to it, and there are no vaccines and medications that are highly effective, then regardless of countries being developed or not, concerning transmission will occur (especially in this inter-connected world with air travel everywhere).

We're in a sense somewhat lucky that the true infection fatality rate for this one is not much higher than 0.65% (which is still 6 and a half times higher than the flu's) with a CFR so far of 3 to 4%. Can you imagine if this virus had the same case-fatality-rate of its cousin MERS, which was, brace for it, 34.3%? Fortunately for us the MERS wasn't that infectious...

But it's sufficient to have a virus like I just described that is BOTH very infections and very lethal, and all hell breaks lose. Sure, when a virus is too lethal it tends to extinguish itself from killing too many hosts, but there is an in-between situation in which a virus may have a very significant CFR and still be very infectious. Those are the ones that are lots of trouble and there isn't much that modern medicine and sanitation can do to stop them until there is a vaccine or effective treatments are found, which takes time so the virus may do a lot of damage before it is contained.

If the issues with these viruses were related to a country's development or a country's medical infrastructure, well, the strongest country in the world in this regard, ours, has been the one worst hit, with 4% of the world's population and 25% of the world's cases and deaths. So, come again, is this just a question of sanitation? Most of the other countries where it got very bad, are the very developed Western European countries. With the exception of Brazil (which, despite unequal distribution of wealth and pockets of poverty, is actually not exactly a poor country, with the world's 9th or 10th economy last I checked), most hard-hit countries are developed.

I'm not saying that the SARS-CoV-2 is "killing us in huge numbers", don't put words in my mouth. But it is killing a lot of us (155 thousand people, to put it in perspective, is almost 3 times the soldiers we lost in the Vietnam war). And it is also *maiming* a lot of us, with the new evidence of severe health consequences for some people who have "recovered" from it, so deaths is not the whole story. Maybe we'll have 5 to 10 times more maimed people than dead people, and that's significant.

Finally, while the virus so far has "only" (as a way of speaking) killed 155K people, it isn't over yet, and we don't know if it will have a second wave worse than the first one, until a vaccine is found (if one is found - I'm actually very optimistic about that but it is not a given, yet). So don't yell victory ahead of time.

As for this being a hoax, go say it to the loved ones of the 155,000 who died, and likely the 5 times more numerous who are experiencing severe organ damage from it.

For someone like me whose brother suffered a terrible stroke caused by COVID-19 (a relatively frequent complication of the virus' predilection for damaging the endothelium, which is the inner layer of the blood vessels, causing blood clots that then detach and travel to the brain) and whose sister-in-law and three nephews are devastated, calling this serious illness a "hoax" is frankly repugnant.

I hope for your sake you and your loved ones won't suffer a fate similar to my brother's. If God forbid it happens, I'm quite sure that you will rapidly change your idea that this is a hoax, like so many who denied it at first then got severely sick or saw their loved ones get severely sick, have changed theirs.

By the way, are you a conservative who plans to vote for Donald Trump? Well, President Trump after initial misunderstandings, has said repeatedly including this past week, that this virus is his words, vicious and very dangerous. So, is he spreading a hoax?

Glad you recognize that I'm not a dupe, because I'm definitely not one. I know what I'm saying (I don't mean it in an arrogant way; it's just a fact). You know, I have no trouble acknowledging what I don't know, like I recently said in a thread about the macro-economy (I'm clueless, there). But on this topic I do hold my own.

 

Wow.

I said huge numbers; I didn't say you said huge numbers - try to keep up.

As for the rest, the ChiFlu Hoax - like many hoaxes - is vastly more dangerous than the underlying minor medical situation being cynically used to spread fear and panic.

Hope you come to see things more clearly.

 

They're in morgues.

 

Maybe the flu is, but the tRUMPvirus is more deadly and more contagious.

 

Minor medical situation? Again, say that to my sister-in-law and my three young nephews who had a healthy, smart, hardworking great father and husband and now have a handicapped person at home who has trouble recognizing them and can't speak. Say that to the wife and baby son of Nick Cordero, 41-year-old fit and healthy Broadway singer/actor who battled this virus for 13 weeks, had one leg amputated due to a blood clot, needed a pacemaker because his heart wouldn't beat right, needed dialysis because his kidneys stopped working, and ultimately died. Say that to the 20-year-old pretty and healthy young woman who was on TV yesterday giving a halting, short-of-breath interview before going to the OR to have one of her lungs removed, and will live the rest of her (shortened life) with only one lung.

Unbelievable that you think this is all minor! I mean, are you just trying to provoke me when you say something like that, right after I told you what happened to my brother? If that's what you're trying to do, it's cruel and not funny, regardless of your cute smileys.

You are calling my position "childish" and "absurd" (your words), because you say there is no virus trying to kill us "in huge numbers," implying that this is what I'm thinking (the huge numbers part). Of course you are not the one who is thinking "huge numbers" regardless of what you say, because *you* think it's a hoax, right? So the only other option left is that you are identifying *my* position with the huge numbers part which is why you call it absurd, right? And you've done it not just now but also since an earlier post. That's why I said, "don't put words in my mouth." Try to keep up. Understanding in context what you said is not rocket science. Your position is very transparent and doesn't need to be spelled out literally in order to be understood.

I see things very clearly, thank you, like I've just demonstrated.

I'll tell you what, someone who is willing to say "minor medical situation" to someone who just told you "my brother had a devastating stroke from it" is not someone I want to keep having a dialogue with. So, good bye forever; have a nice life, and be safe. Keep your loved ones safe too because trust me, you don't want them to have one of the "minor medical situations."

 

?

 

Just another virus.

There will be many, many more.

 

You're profoundly confused about a huge number of things, including my simple statements.

If you choose to remain in this confused state, bless you.

If/when you choose to move past it, that's great.

I have no idea what you feel the value of your anecdotal claims are, but if you wish to start a thread on them, and provide copious details pertaining to the specific situation, I'm sure it would be interesting.

Whether it would impact those driven to hysteria by the ChiFlu Hoax to rethink their positions logically is unclear, but it appears unlikely.

Viruses and mammals have co-existed for eons and will continue to do so.

Mass human panics, and devotion to dangerous cults of belief like Nazism, are quite ancient in origin as well.

In this instance, we have a bad flu colliding with a tendency by some to invest in dangerous false beliefs.

I hope our country can survive and thrive after this, as Germany eventually did after Nazism.