Army Combat Fitness Test Fiasco! Slides Reveal 84% of Women Failing ACFT

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Lil Mike, Oct 8, 2019.

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  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Actually, not true. When they do that, they are actually considered to be "spies", and are therefore outside the protection of the Geneva and Hague treaties. The forces that capture them are free to execute them if they wish. They only become "war criminals" if they commit atrocities against civilians, which is already covered, no matter what they are wearing.
     
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  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    And if somebody made that claim, I would say he is an idiot that had been taking to many steroids and watching to many movies.

    Of course, according to you the claim is from a movie, so guess how seriously I take it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  3. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    That is another option for the capturing force.
     
  4. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    you wouldn't call Nightmare an idiot

    He is an active duty Army combat helicopter flier who could likely 'cold clock out almost every single woman currently serving in the military with one punch'

     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  5. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I was being facetious in response to the other post to make a point about the whole argument of men being biologically stronger than women. Yes men are biologically stronger than women, yes most men could physically beat up most women with some exceptions as with any case. Either way that particular fact has no bearing as to whether or not women should be in the military seeing how the 99% of the military jobs don't require you to have to physically beat the crap out of someone else...

    I've only ever had to get into a physical altercation with someone twice in my career, one was to tackle a buddy of mine who was actively pounding someones face in so he wouldn't go to jail, and two was in combat when I was a ground pounder and turned a corner and ran into someone unexpectedly. The odds of ever needing to come into physical contact with the enemy are so statistically rare that they don't even blip on the stat charts. And plus those Soldiers who perform those jobs are combat arms who have like 2 women in all of those MOS's combined at this point.
     
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  6. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    what is the other option for the capturing force?

    in the movie platoon with charlie sheen, it appeared the geneva convention was not followed.
     
  7. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Once again, that is a movie!

    I do not care what happens in movies, those are made for entertainment. Can we please stop talking about Hollywood?

    If your only knowledge of the military is from movies, why are you even here?
     
  8. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    disagree, women can do boots on the ground jobs and physically beat the crap out of the enemy.

    they may or may not be as efficient as you
     
  9. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    It is a war crime for combatants to pretend to be civilians for obvious reasons.
    On capture they can be tried by a military tribunal and executed.
    The US chooses to capture and release these war criminals.

    Phony war works a bit like phony riot control.
     
  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    And how many do we permanently injure in the training before they even get "on the ground"? How many do we loose, and others lost in supporting them, just to make some kind of EO pat on the back?

    The funny thing is, you are both right and wrong. You will never see me say women should not be in the military, nor should they not even be in combat arms. I have deployed in combat arms with females, and have nothing but respect for them.

    But that is not the same as saying women should be in all Combat Arms.

    But tell you what. Let's see you put your efforts into proving your point in a way that does not actually involve the spending of live first. Let's force every sporting team in North America and the EU to put women in their teams. No more NBA, no more WNBA. Only one league, where all teams must be composed of say 25% women, and at least 2 women must be in play on the respective field at all times.

    Baseball, football, soccer, hockey, basketball, rugby, cricket, every single one of them. They must all be a quarter female, and females be on the field at all time. Let's see how well that works, shall we? After all, nobody would even die in such a test. And surely, there will be no differences in the abilities of the teams before or after.

    Or we can make it even more fair and impartial. Half of the teams have to do that, the other half play exactly as they already have been playing. THen in every game we match one of those up against the other. Then see if adding females helped the teams or not.

    The thing that bothers me the most I think is those who have never served, never once had to put themselves into these kinds of situations trying to mandate down just because of "feelings". Well, feelings do not matter when your buddy has been shot, and somebody has to run out and drag them back to safety. Or when you have to do a forced march of 25 kilometers in 6 hours with over 125 pounds strapped to your body, and still be able to dig into your new position and prepare to repel an enemy assault.

    When you are talking about things like this, "less efficient" is a cute way of saying "dead". In combat, those that are "lest efficient" become bodies.
     
  11. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    It is rather pointless I think.

    Seems to me all his knowledge of the military comes from movies.
     
  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I remember that movie!
     
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    In fact, we have the Olympic Games next year, and again after that.

    Let's force every single team event to be at least 25% female in the Olympics. Everything from relay races to any other event. All team events must be composed of men and women. Seems to me this would be a perfect place to test this out, and since they are technically not even paid, nobody even looses money because nobody wants to see the silliness.
     
  14. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    spies are not war criminals unless they engage occupying forces.
     
  15. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    movies are psychological operations
     
  16. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Wrong again.

    What spies are not is Prisoners of War. They are not military (even if they are a member of the military).

    They can indeed be war criminals, that all depends on what actions they take while they are conducting their mission.

    A spy who infiltrated enemy headquarters and escapes with enemy plans, not a war criminal..

    A spy who infiltrates an enemy nation and sabotages military facilities, not a war criminal.

    A spy who infiltrates an enemy nation and blows up a house of worship or a school, they are a war criminal.

    A spy can even shoot their way into a military outpost, killing 10 soldiers and they are still not a war criminal. However, they are still a spy if captured and can be hung. Whereas a soldier that does the same thing has to be taken as a POW.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  17. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    spies are not combatants, they are protected by the geneva convention
     
  18. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    *smacks head*

    *reads the above quote again*

    *smacks head yet again*

    First of all, they are not. The Geneva Convention deals primarily with Civilians, but also delves into Enemy Combatants. But it does discuss spies:

    Article 5, Geneva Convention of 1949

    They are combatants, and they are covered. The capturing nation only need to hold a trial for them, then it is free to execute them.

    And to continue, Geneva Protocol, addition to Protocol I, 1977:

    And the Hague Protocols of both 1899 and 1907 say almost the exact same thing.

    So please, I give you this challenge. Go and find in the Geneva Convention where it says that spies are to be treated as a non-combatant. In fact, I am feeling generous. Feel free to include the Hague Protocols as well.

    You see, this is the problem. You know nothing, all of your "knowledge" is wrong and lacking, and comes entirely apparently from popular media. I however, I have had this kind of thing pounded into my head since 1983. This is known as the "Laws of Land Warfare", and is a topic I have to go through every single year. I have even taught these classes a great many times over the decades.

    Oh please, go back to watching your movies. Because you obviously do not have a clue what you are talking about.

    Spies are protected by the Geneva Convention indeed. Yes, they are protected in that they get a trial before being hung. And they can thus be hung with no penalty on the nation that hangs them. Whereas if a POW is hung outside of a Court Martial of their own peers and hung, that is a war crime.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  19. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    only criminals go to trial, like war criminals.

    spies are civilians.
     
  20. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    duplicate
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  21. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    No, spies have to be tried, as already stated, in accordance with the Hague Protocols. Spies are not civilians.

    Still waiting for you to verify that claim, under either the Geneva Convention or Hague Protocols. After all, you are the one that brought up the Geneva Convention. If you are right, surely you can prove that you are right and I am wrong.

    Please point out to me where it says they are civilians.
     
  22. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Combatants who who use civilians as cover are war criminals.
     
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  23. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    If they can cut it sure, let them go right ahead. As I've stated before I believe combat arms should have it's own standards separate from this dumb ACFT that must be met by both men and women equally.

    My biggest issue with allowing women in combat arms was logistical. It's always been such a royal pain in the ass to bring women along in the field because of the military's insistence that they have cooties and can't be anywhere near the men. On large outposts or established bases or whatever then fine, but if there's one woman in an infantry platoon of 50 dudes then they shouldn't have to bring a separate tent just for her to sleep in. It's slowly getting better though, when I first joined women and men were separated in the field by proverbial Supermax prison fences with electrical wire. Nowadays it's not uncommon to see men and women sleeping in the same tents. And "gasp" changing clothes! and "gasp" sleeping right next to each other on cots because....nobody actually gives a ****.
     
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  24. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    disagree women need special accommodations because the men would fornicate her.

    this was seen in the movie the generals daughter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_General's_Daughter_(film)#:~:text=The General's Daughter is a,same name by Nelson DeMille.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  25. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Yeah...during our recent field training exercise where all of the men and women shared tents after the lights went out all of the females in our unit were dragged outside and tied to stakes and molested :roll:

    I must have slept through all of that.
     
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