The Bible Condones Slavery

Why, because it has historical relevance of humans past?

 

Unfortunately, you are very wrong about this topic. Please review the biblical teachings on slavery.

 

Apparently it's an important issue now. This thread was started yesterday.

 

I have, no condemnation of slavery.

 

None of those passages (in the New Testament) actually condone slavery.

This is a very disingenuous argument, an argument from ignorance.

Slavery was legalized back then, under the Roman Empire, and harshly enforced. What were the slave's only other option? Stab his master in the back and run away becoming a fugitive?

Are you saying because the Bible doesn't give the okay or tacit approval for slaves to rebel, it condones slavery?

 

The North Korean regime has about 5% of its population in what is basically slavery. I suggest you move there so you can live in country that truly fits you.

 

Why? When there is a splendid prison industry that uses slave labor for fun and profit in the US.

 

What does that have to do with the fact that the bible does not condemn slavery?

 

The Bible condone slavery as well as condemns it depending on what books you read.

 

Jesus asks that Christians be pacifist. Its obvious that owning slaves doesn't fit in that lifestyle.

 

That is what was needed in those days. That was during the Law of Moses. Over time, that law brought people to the point they could accept Jesus Christ New Law and new commandments. He didn't change the 10 major commandments. He fulfilled them. It's you that doesn't understand or have little knowledge of those days. When you get to the judgement day with God, He will help you understand why the law was the way it was in those days. Today, we live by the laws of Christ. Try to pull your head out of the past.

 

Post this condemnation.

 

Which doesn't condemn slavery.

 

There is a lot of stuff the bible doesn't condemn. But you can't be a good Christian and a slave owner at the same time.

 

There are 2 New Testament Principles That Argue Against Slavery:

"We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that
the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels,
the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill
their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral,
for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and
perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed
God, which he entrusted to me."___ 1 Timothy 1:8-11

Principle 1 ~ ~ Slave Traders Grouped With Murderers.
Note that "slave traders" is listed in the same category as some
of the worst sins known to mankind , , ,

■ lawbreakers and rebels
■ the ungodly
■ sinful
■ the unholy and irreligious,
■ for those who kill their fathers or mothers
■ for murderers
■ for the sexually immoral
■ for those practicing homosexuality
■ for slave traders
■ and liars and perjurers
■ and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

So?

So it cannot be said that the New Testament does not condemn
slavery. Why not? Because the New Testament condemn slave
trading.

In addition to 1 Timothy 1:8-11 we have several l New Testament
Principles that would prohibit slavery, here it one of them:

Principle 2 ~ ~ The Golden Rule
"So in everything do to others as you would have them do to you."
___The Lord Jesus , , , Matthew 7:12

It is irrational to argue that humans would desire to be slaves,
therefore one could not enslave another human being and
at the same time be doing to others as he would have them
do to him.

JAG


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Just For The record , , ,
"An argument made repeatedly is that the slavery mentioned
in the Bible is quite different from chattel slavery practiced
in the American South, and that in some cases the word
"slave" is a mistranslation.
For example, Hebrew slaves in Biblical and Talmudic times had
many rights that slaves in the American South did not have,
including the requirement that slaves are freed after 7 years
of servitude. The slave owner owned the slave's labor, but
not their body, as opposed to chattel slavery where they
owned the slave's body as well."__Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery#The_Bible_is_not_against_slavery

JAG


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There Is An Important Difference Between "Race Based Slavery" And
"Economic Based Slavery."

"The Bible condemns race-based slavery in that it teaches that all men
are created by God and made in His image (Genesis 1:27). At the same
time, the Old Testament did allow for economic-based slavery and
regulated it. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for
in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world
in the past few centuries."

_______

The Bible Is Against What The African Slave Trade Did -- Which Was
To Kidnap People And Sell Them Into Slavery -- {Death Penalty For
Doing This.}

"In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of
“man-stealing,” which is what happened in Africa in the 16th to 19th
centuries. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them
to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on
plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact,
the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone
who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is
caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16).

Source:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html

JAG

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I would technically disagree with that. Under certain conditions, under certain historical contexts, it could have been possible.
Maybe you should rephrase and say you can't be a great Christian and a slave owner at the same time.

 

The Bible’s prescription for ending slavery , , ,

"If a person experiences the love, mercy, and grace of God by
receiving His salvation, God will reform his soul, changing
the way he thinks and acts.

A person who has experienced God’s gift of salvation and
freedom from the slavery of sin, as God reforms his soul,
will realize that enslaving another human being is wrong , , ,

A person who has truly experienced God’s grace will in
turn be gracious towards others.

That would be the Bible’s prescription for ending slavery."

https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html

JAG

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It Was the Christians That Ended Slavery , , ,
Start quote
"The anti-slavery movements led by [a Christian] Wilberforce
in England and abolitionists in America were dominated by
Christians. These believers reasoned that since we are all
created equal in the eyes of God, no one has the right to
rule another without consent. This is the moral basis not
only of anti-slavery but also of democracy , , ,

In the end the fact remains that the only movements that
opposed slavery in principle were mobilized in the West,
and they were overwhelmingly led and populated by
Christians. , , ,

So who killed slavery? The Christians did, while
everyone else generally stood by and watched."
End quote
https://townhall.com/columnists/dineshdsouza/2008/01/14/how-christians-ended-slavery-n962085

JAG

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Most people in the west were Christian then as now, so it stands to reason that those who opposed slavery were also predominantly Christian, JAG.

But you'll notice that their arguments aren't based in the Bible. There is nothing in the Bible saying we are all created equal in the eyes of God. Nada! The idea of equality is far, far newer and more progressive than anything in the Bible.

 

Disagree with your conclusion from that , , ,
Slavery has been a World problem , , a Humanity problem , , and
has existed for all of human history.
The Non-Christian World did not end slavery, but stood by and watched it.
It was the Christians that ended it.
Not Islam.
Not Buddhism.
Not Jainism.
Not Judaism.
Not atheism
Not Secularism Humanism.
Christendom ended slavery in the West. Fact.

Disagree with that also.
Their arguments were based upon Biblical Principles which are easy
to find and list.
Here are 2 of them , , ,
{1} God made man in His image , , ALL men, not just certain men
{2} The Christian Principle of "Do unto others as you would have them do to you."
This is a Christian Principle that was acted upon to end slavery -- it is irrelevant that
"other religions" have their version of "The Golden Rule" --- their version did NOT
motivate THEM to END slavery -- but rather to either observe it or participate in it.

Disagree.
There are Biblical Principles that "say" that , , that teach humans are equal in the eyes of God.
And the Bible is saturated with passages that assume that all men are equal in the eyes of God
For example, Christendom's most famous verse John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world"
not just certain parts of the world. So? So God's love was for ALL HUMANS, and not just for
certain humans. You would conclude therefore that all men are equal in the eyes of God -- and
ought NOT to be enslaved by other humans that are not superior to them and have no right to
enslave them.

All of human history, Christian and Non-Christian, is soaked and saturated with blood and mass
killing and oppression and slavery ,, slavery right here in the 21st century too.
But say whatever you will, it was the Christians that ended slavery in the West.
You can put any "spin" on it that you desire --- but it was still The Christians that ended slavery
in the West --- and they died by the tens of thousands on battlefields in order to get it done.

JAG

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The Golden Rule is hardly a Christian principle. Christians have demonstrated this throughout history, including when they condoned and practiced slavery. It was Christians who practiced slavery, oh yes!
Not Islam.
Not Buddhism.
Not Jainism.
Not Judaism.
Not atheism
Not Secularism Humanism.
Christians (human beings who held Christian beliefs) practiced slavery in the West. Fact.

It is also a fact that they used the Bible to justify that slavery, and my OP provides at least some of the scriptures they used for that justification.

The idea of equality is a universal one that developed in times subsequent to when biblical texts were recorded and Christianity got its start. Importantly, the Roman-influenced Jews of that time did at least begin to move away from the ethnocentrism of their forebears, and this would, of course, have been due to Roman influence upon them, since Rome was a multicultural, metropolitan empire encompassing many different lands and ethnicities. Unfortunately, in Rome as everywhere else in those times, slavery was still an institution, as it was pretty much universally in the ancient world. That all would have stemmed from ancient ideas of tribalism and ethnocentrism that permitted conquered and captured people to be treated as such. It took centuries for western thought to progress beyond this to the point of embracing equality as our largely secular, progressive, yet still Christian founders did, yet you will notice that even they did not even attempt to condemn or outlaw slavery, but rather owned slaves themselves. It was an established part of how the economy worked even when America was young. And as time went on and thought progressed further, it was predominantly Christians who both practiced and opposed slavery in America, and each could pick out scriptures to support their position, and so they did.

 

Joshua never existed. Moses never existed. Israel were in Palestine already. The story was written in Babylon much later to give the Hebrews an origin which they didn't have. If a 'Moses' had led the Israelites as written he would have left Egypt to arrive in Egypt. Egypt ruled Palestine at that time. If you read archaeology and ancient history in the 13th century Egypt was having to prevent the Hittites from taking Egyptian land - which would have included Palestine. The 2 fought a might chariot battle. In the end neither side could prevail and lost so many men they called it a draw, signed a peace treaty and went back to their homes. While this was happening Israel and the other Palestinian tribes rebelled against the Egyptian Governors and troops, defeated them and took over Palestine. For anyone interested letters called 'the Armana letters' because they were discovered in an archaeological dig in Armana, Egypt show the Governors pleading with Pharaoh for help to put down the rebels. They got no help. From this time both the Egyptian and Hittite powers waned. The Hittites disappearing and Egypt about to lose their independence for a millenia to various Empires

 

JAG Writes:
These Anti-Slavery Biblical Principles are still true

{1} God made man in His image , , ALL men, not just certain men

{2} The Christian Principle of "Do unto others as you would have them do to you."

{3} Christendom's most famous verse John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world"
not just certain parts of the world. So? So God's love was for ALL HUMANS, and not just for
certain humans. You would conclude therefore that all men are equal in the eyes of God -- and
ought NOT to be enslaved by other humans that are not superior to them and have no right to
enslave them.

Incorrect.
It is a Christian Principle.
It is in the Christian New Testament. Mathew 7:12
Jesus taught the Golden Rule. Everybody knows it. You know it.
The whole world knows the Golden Rule is a Christian Principle
Other religions had their versions of the Golden Rule, which does
not mean that the Golden Rule is not a Christian Principle.
How can you say "The Golden Rule is hardly a Christian principle."?
When you know for a fact that it is one.

Say whatever you will, it was the Christians that ended slavery in the West.

You can put any "spin" on it that you desire --- but it was still The Christians
that ended slavery in the West --- and they died by the tens of thousands
on battlefields in order to get it done.

That's incorrect too.
History Of Slavery In The Muslim World.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world
And there was a lot of it too.
Slavery in India also.

There were atheists killers like Mao and Pol Pot who murdered tens of
millions in their own "version of slavery" --- which boiled down to
the "same thing" in principle. And in many instances they caged
up their "slaves" too -- in concentration camps.

It was Christians who ended slavery in the West.
This fact is known by Humanity.
There is no "spin" that you can put on it, that will get rid of the fact
that it was Christians that ended slavery in the West.

True.
But they learned better.
Mr. Lincoln and US Grant's Northern Army taught them better -- an army
made up of Christians.

True.
But they learned not to interpret those Scriptures incorrectly.

You saying it does not make it true.
I have read history books.
All of human history, Christian and Non-Christian, is soaked and
saturated with blood and mass killing and oppression and slavery.

Rome was evil and cruel and barbaric and used crucifixion as a
method to torture criminals to death --- along with at least some
innocent people too. Crucified them, and later broke their legs
before they were removed alive from their crosses, in some instances.

True. Exactly.

You say they were "largely secular."
I say that'd be hard to demonstrate.
I don't see how we can judge somebody's spiritual condition
that long ago. "Secularism" is a "heart condition."

True.
But Americans learned better.
It was American and British Christians that ended slavery in
the West and not the Non-Religious people.

True.

True.

True.

JAG


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