Am I one of the last undecided voters? Who should I vote for?

i look at your concerns and i see a preoccupation with the superficial. i should start out by telling you that i don't vote. take a look at the most ignorant of the posts here over the last ten years, the fools who kept insisting obama was nigerian into his second term and the morons who keep declaring trump to be the kremlin's tool, and that should give you a clue as to why i don't play that game. these people represent the "best" of the american electorate. they are concerned, they are involved and they are complete and total idiots. they exist in an echo chamber that reinforces their own beliefs. the average american voter doesn't even go that far. they give an occasional listen to the news and simply vote the way their peers tell them to.

so, you want to play with the morons anyway. well, the first thing i would advise is to throw out the hype, forget about covid, ignore the the media and pay attention to what people actually do. i happen to like trump. what was the first thing he did? he gave the american taxpayers back some of their own money. that shows me that the private sector is his first priority. if the progressive hordes in government, both republican and democrat, had gotten even the slightest clue, they would have tightened their belts and prepared to do what the responsible people of this nation have been doing for over a decade. instead, they kept on spending like drunken sailors and increasing the debt. trump's way of communicating isn't for everyone, but at least he's communicating. like a junkyard dog at westminster, the first thing he's going to do is try to eat the competition and that's just what he did. is he erratic? hell yes and that's just what we need to shake up a complacent global bureaucracy. is he divisive? i would suggest that the divisions he is accused of are the work of a media frenzy that is joined at the hip with the political establishment and has even gone so far as to put out a bounty for any dirt that can be dug up on him or anyone associated with him. divisive? wasn't it his political opponent that labeled his supporters as "a basket of deplorables"? for those of you who have a problem with the english language, "deplore" is a synonym for "hate" and this one statement, cheered by the democrat minions, divided this nation in half. what problems you have with his international decision i have no answer for. do you want this nation to keep on playing world police? do you want us to keep on paying for the defense of the western world? nato should have died when the warsaw pact did, but europe insisted on maintaining an aggressive stance. face it, a reunified germany is more of a danger to the civilized world than russia is. nations have enemies and they have allies. they do not have friends.

as for the biden/ harris ticket... well, there is very little to say. biden is a non-entity. his claims to fame are that he was the invisible vice-president and that he has survived in politics by toeing the party line. a vote for biden is a vote for the dnc. my problems with the dnc are myriad. they are opportunistic collectivists, promising the moon to each group they court, even though those promises run counter to the promises they have given to other groups they are courting. if you have problems with harris, then you have problems with the ticket as a whole. harris is the future of the dnc. yes, she is radical. yes, she is authoritarian. the authoritarianism of centralized control is what the dnc is all about. if you believe in the supremacy of the public sector, then vote biden/harris. if you believe that the individual must be constrained by regulation at every turn, then vote biden/harris. if you believe in mob rule as interpreted by our representatives, then vote biden/harris.

 

Wow, this is an excellent post. And yes, I said in my OP that I'd articulate only some of the pros and cons I see otherwise the OP would be too long. The undermining of the rule of law and the damage to the democracy is also something I dislike about Trump. Yes, I'd love to see America having 5 or 7 parties to represent all ideologies but I'm afraid we'll never get to that, and won't even get a viable third party. For now I think we have bigger fish to fry, as this election will be very decisive to the future of the country. By the way, I should add that I dislike a state of anarchy and think that riots with arson and looting are a disgrace, and it is disappointing to me that Biden did not vehemently speak up against these recent events. So, with this post I'm adding a "con" each, to both tickets. Like you, I'll take a big tax hit if the Dem ticket wins, but that's not my top priority. I want the best for our country first, beyond my personal situation. I can afford it, too. I can afford healthcare too even out of pocket (although I do have a good private plan) but it pains me that many of our fellow citizens cannot afford it, and there are too many who go bankrupt due to healthcare costs. So, yes, this is a big plus to help me vote for the Dem ticket. But I also think we need a strong military and for now we can't afford to walk away from fossil fuels, so these are reasons to push me to the GOP ticket. The bottom line is, I remain undecided. I have less than 80 days to decide. I will vote early by mail as soon as I can so it's less than that.

I think one of the big determinants for me is the state of the vaccines. I will watch closely the fate of the Warp Speed initiative. Whether it succeeds or fails may heavily influence my vote.

 

True. I'll have to do that. In terms of reliability, I suspect that Biden is more reliable than Trump, who lies a lot and flip-flops a lot. But I'm not sure that Biden will be the president for long, if he wins, and I trust Harris much less. It's a big dilemma, after all. I guess if Biden had picked a better veep in my opinion, he'd have made it easier for me to vote for him. I'm really not impressed with Harris. On the other hand I'm not impressed with Pence either...

 

Are you not aware of Biden's record of lying and plagiarizing?

 

We seem to share several views. I'm also a firearm owner (not a huge collection... I only own one, haha) and I'm also pro strong immigration policy. But yes, I detest Trump's attacks on the people's vote. It does seem like he is preparing to steal or contest the result of the election, and yes, it's a bridge too far; it's stuff for petty dictators of Banana Republics and shouldn't happen in the United States of America. I understand that Trump's economy was based on increasing the deficit but in the short run after the devastation caused by the pandemic, we may need to stay the course for a faster economic recovery, and that's where I fear the over-achieving big government favored by Biden. When I see stuff like AOC's Green New Deal I shudder.

 

I'm a lot more optimistic about vaccines than you seem to be. I even started a thread about it, in the COVID-19 subforum. There aren't just greedy companies out there. An organization with the weight and excellence of Oxford University, simply the freaking #1 university in the entire world according to most international rankings, is also trying hard. Sure, they got a big pharma company to support them but they are serious people. And no, there isn't anything being cut in terms of safety, the phase 3 trials are proceeding as recommended and as it's been done for any vaccine. Same 30,000 people in phase 3 so no, safety *is* being appropriately looked at.

How I can base it on the vaccine? By the end of October things will be much clearer. Pfizer expects to be done with phase 3 by then; Oxford and Moderna will follow shortly. We may have strong preliminary results. We may have a pronouncement by the FDA regarding emergency authorization. We may know with certainty that vaccination will start, say, by mid-December or mid-January (it has already started in China and Russia, by the way, although what they are doing is risky). If it looks like the vaccine will be a success, epidemiological control will be a moot point (after a few months; initially it should continue, until the vaccine is sufficiently diffused) and consumer confidence will go up.

Now, if vaccines start to fail phase 3 with low efficacy and safety issues, then we're in for a mess, which would be a strong reason for me to want a change in leadership.

I hope Biden won't raise taxes in the short run. I'm not sure that he won't, though (or that Congress won't if the Senate also shifts to the Dems).

 

This election is unlike all others because people's lives quite literally depend upon the outcome.

173,000 are already dead and it will probably be in the region of a quarter of a million by November. There was no need for that many deaths but it happened because of a FAILURE of LEADERSHIP. Other nations, like Australia, have a similar Federal/State type of government to ours and they formed a UNIFIED leadership to deal with the Pandemic SUCCESSFULLY. That proves that it COULD have been done here too.

That FAILURE to LEAD in a CRISIS is a KEY factor when deciding who should be in that position for the next 4 years. Who knows what other crisis could arise in the time frame but KNOWINGLY voting for someone who has already PROVEN himself to be INCAPABLE of LEADERSHIP when it matters is essentially setting yourself, and We the People, up for the worst possible outcome.

Like you I am an Independent and the last Republican I supported was St Reagan. I was rooting for McCain in 2000 and I detested Bush jr for what they did to him in the primaries. That said Bush jr rose to the occasion after 9/11 and UNITED the nation behind himself. What he subsequently did was despicable but he did show LEADERSHIP in a CRISIS.

When the Bush/Cheney regime subsequently TANKED the global economy in 2008 McCain panicked and it was Obama who stepped up and assumed the LEADERSHIP role in that economic crisis and so he ended up with my support.

So to answer your question you need to ask yourself who do you want to be your LEADER in the NEXT crisis? Your choice is between someone that you already KNOW is INCAPABLE of leadership and someone who has 8 years of front line EXPERIENCE during both economic and health crises.

Remember your own life and the lives of your nearest and dearest could depend upon who has the LEADERSHIP role during the next crisis and to have an entire term WITHOUT a crisis is the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

 

Sorry but I entirely disagree with your first paragraph.
As for your second paragraph my ideas on health insurance align more with the left than with the right. But no, I don't want free healthcare for illegal aliens. That's a strong reason for me to avoid the Dem ticket.

 

I do live in a swing state, and one that is pretty tight with 1% advantage for Biden.

 

Thanks (that's sarcasm) for the first post that seems cute but doesn't contribute at all to the discussion. I'm not interested in joking. This is a serious matter.

 

And if one is happy about certain things but unhappy about certain others, then what?

 

Depends on what you're calling the status quo. If you are talking about the "elite corporate-political establishment"'s control of American politics, I don't like it, although I am for capitalism and think that it is perfectly natural for businesses to post a profit (however I do favor some protections for society and for consumers and workers). If you are calling the status quo, the current state of the Country under Trump, I don't really like it either. Seems like we're in a huge chaos.

 

I already made this point in my OP as one of the cons for the Dem ticket.

 

Well, as a centrist/moderate, I want some, but not too much... and not too little. I think a safety net is good for the disadvantaged, and I think some regulations are needed to protect consumers and voters. But I dislike authoritarian mandates and over-regulation. There is a happy medium.

 

They also promote pederasty? You lost me there. See my cons about Pence.

 

Like I said in my OP, Trump's chaotic leadership (we might say, more accurately, lack thereof) is one of the strong cons I place on this ticket. So you have a point, thete.

 

Do you think these safety nets should be federally mandated or should they be left to each individual state to craft it's own policies?

 

You know, Medicaid is a half federal, had state program and I'm fine with its expansion to cover more of our fellow citizens who are disadvantaged.

 

Yes that is fine but do you think the people in Mississippi need the same sort of coverage as the people in Oregon?

 

You lost me there. If a botched response to a freaking pandemic, if the state of the economy, if societal divisions, if foreign relations and other items I've quoted are superficial, I wonder what is deep, in your opinion. Well, I guess what is deep for you is Trump, since the rest of your post was a long eulogy for Trump. You claim that you don't vote but you are clearly on one side, so I wonder why exactly you don't vote. Frankly, your opinion is not very helpful to my dilemma, but thanks for replying, anyway.

 

No, it's fine to have regional variations. I favor a hybrid healthcare system, like France's, which does ensure ample access but is flexible enough to be tailored to specific needs.

 

What do you mean by the "same sort of coverage"?

 

Vote for anyone who is NOT a Democrat.

They've been trying to destroy the country since 2016.

 

Imagine the looney toons the DNC would pick for Biden's cabinet.

AOC. Waters. Warren. Clinton. Sanders.

 

And yet for all the unpleasantries concerning Trump that, far and away, beats anything either Trump or Pence is likely to do.