Illinois teen arrested in fatal shooting at Kenosha protest, police say

Discussion in 'United States' started by MissingMayor, Aug 26, 2020.

  1. Moolk

    Moolk Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2020
    Messages:
    19,283
    Likes Received:
    14,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Incorrect, thats a very good way to decide how much of an issue something is. Murder violates peoples rights to. As for most of the rest, I can agree.

    I think black people are more inclined to fight police because of the objectively false narratives constantly reinforced that paint their greatest enemy as police, particularly white police. I think the issue of being a statistical anomaly of single parent homes overwhemingly contributes to it as well as they are also a statistical anomaly of violence as well. More violence, more police interaction, less respect for police, equals bad news.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  2. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    11,445
    Likes Received:
    3,263
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It may have been unwise to put himself in that position. I know I certainly would not have if the option of planting my fat, happy ass in my cushy suburban living room was a viable option. BUT, if these violent "protests" keep happening, and we continue seeing police precincts and random auto-parts stores (and others) burned to the ground, with outright assault with deadly weapons directed towards law enforcement and anyone judged to be on the "wrong" side, we're going to see more and more and more of this, until the next thing you know we're going to have a full blown deadly Civil War happening. Only it won't be as clear cut as North vs. South, and nobody but Antifa will be wearing uniforms, so knowing who is on which side will be very difficult to accurately ascertain.

    As for me personally, I'm too old and WAAAYYY too disabled to participate in such nonsense, so I'll just sit on the sidelines and watch if it's possible. If they bring the fight to me, I'll do everything in my ability to make sure I get them before they get me, but let's hope it doesn't come to that.
     
    Moolk likes this.
  3. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,135
    Likes Received:
    4,903
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So the conclusion here is that you are unable to provide any sort of reference to your claim that he was legally allowed to be in possession of a firearm in that particular area. And that the law as referenced multiple times in this thread directly refutes what you are claiming here.

    So your statement is proven to be factually incorrect.

    Legally, under the law as written, he was not allowed to carry the AR-15 unless with the intent to hunt. The legal definition of hunting is: The act of pursuing and taking wild animals: the chase. That was not the activity that he was undertaking while in possession of the AR-15 therefore, under the law as written, it was illegal for him to carry the AR-15.

    Whether or not he was justified in shooting those folks for attacking him is a matter of opinion and will be decided in the court of law. Whether or not he was LEGALLY allowed to carry the AR-15 is not in question. The factual answer to that second question is no based on the law as written.
     
    PARTIZAN1 likes this.
  4. Moolk

    Moolk Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2020
    Messages:
    19,283
    Likes Received:
    14,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The only reasonable conclusion is that I am refusing to do your research for you, or anyone else. I dont care what other people “feel” is my responsibility in discussion, I will never do anyone’s research for them. It is on everyone to be informed, not my job to inform them.

    He was absolutely allowed to carry that weapon in that war zone, so that he could defend himself from the irrational terrorists.

    And he did so effectively.
     
  5. dbldrew

    dbldrew Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,813
    Likes Received:
    1,015
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Its a human condition, its the fact that young men that grow up without a father or a father figure are significantly more likely to be violent criminals. It does not matter what the race is.. no father = much higher % of criminal behavior.

    Unfortunately in the Black community the % of fatherless households is almost 70% and much higher in bad neighborhoods..

    So combine that with a poor neighborhood and you get violent criminal humans. And violent criminal humans are going to interact with police in a violent manner with predictable results..

    Fun fact the race with the lowest % of fatherless households are Asians.. Race with the highest economic success? Asians..
     
  6. dbldrew

    dbldrew Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,813
    Likes Received:
    1,015
    Trophy Points:
    113
    maybe, or it could be because he was charged so fast it is to protect him and his family from potential retaliation, and the charges will be dropped after everything calms down.

    Usually there is a investigation before anyone is charged, so if they come out and say it was self defense and no charges, i could see Antifa trying to burn down his house. So quickly charging him might allow time for things to cool down
     
  7. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,135
    Likes Received:
    4,903
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Too bad even lawyers specializing in gun rights cases disagree with you based on research. But I do understand that this is the internet and on the internet folks are always way more educated on specific matters than the actual professionals because the advent of Google has completely diminished the need for law degrees and other trivial things of that nature.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  8. DesertSands

    DesertSands Active Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2014
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    211
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Didn't they release him at the scene at first? That dosent really happen unless you had extremely compelling evidence in your favour.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  9. Moolk

    Moolk Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2020
    Messages:
    19,283
    Likes Received:
    14,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If thats how you choose to “feel” about it, thats entirely ok.
     
  10. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Is that like just before Rome fell that they made Murder a Misdemeaner. Maybe that was Greece or the Han dynasty? Just asking!
     
  11. MissingMayor

    MissingMayor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    7,845
    Likes Received:
    5,495
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A "well regulated militia" wouldn't strand a 17 year old by himself in front of a burned down building to protect the building from fellow citizens.

    I think the founding fathers didn't write that into the Constitution as throw away phrase.
     
  12. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Of course he would be called a thug, a BLMer, an ANTIFALA member, a Welfare Cheat, a Trayvon, a drug seller and that would be topped off by calling him a Democrat.
     
    Moriah likes this.
  13. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But look at the reality it was thrown away.
     
    MissingMayor likes this.
  14. Moolk

    Moolk Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2020
    Messages:
    19,283
    Likes Received:
    14,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not even close to true if all other circumstances were the same.
     
  15. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I understood that he was just ignored not detained at first.
     
  16. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    He went hunting for humans and forgot to get a stamp.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  17. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You really want me to believe that a armed Black young man being in the vicinity of demonstrators would be treated ok. Look Inwas born at night but not last night.
     
  18. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,135
    Likes Received:
    4,903
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Naw, unlike most people I don't deal in emotions I deal in raw facts and data. I "feel" a certain way about a given situation based on the raw irrefutable data associated with it. Sort of like how I'm supposed to be scared of the cops as a black man in America seeing how that's the supposed narrative nowadays. The raw data doesn't in any way support a notion that I should fear for my life when dealing with law enforcement based on statistics therefore I don't worry about the cops. The raw irrefutable data also shows that I me driving to work is exponentially more dangerous than me flying at work, therefore I don't hold the irrational fear of flying that many others do.

    Point is I don't deal in narratives or emotions or any of that nonsense. I deal in facts regardless of the issue, regardless of whether it's Republicans or Democrats or Liberals or Conservatives, and regardless of how I personally feel about it.

    Do I personally think the kid was justified in shooting those people? Yes, regardless of why he was out there. That's my opinion. Do I think the kid should have been out there in the first place? No, that's my opinion. Do I think the kid SHOULD be allowed to open carry an AR-15 down the street? Yes, that's my opinion. Can the kid LEGALLY carry an AR-15 down the street? No, that's a fact.

    Under the law as written he should be charged with the Class A Misdemeanor of unlawfully carrying a firearm while under the age of 18. That's it. All the murder stuff he was charged with is hopefully dropped. But it would be an injustice to the law itself if he is not charged with unlawfully carrying an AR-15 while under the age of 18 because that is illegal. I am not in favor of picking and choosing when the apply laws based on whether or not I personally agree with the law and neither should our legal system.
     
    Lil Mike likes this.
  19. Moolk

    Moolk Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2020
    Messages:
    19,283
    Likes Received:
    14,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The objective data demonstrates the objective fact that he is allowed to carry a gun in order to protect himself in this war zone that was that city. He is allowed to do that and did so remarkably well. He defended himself from the irrational terrorists who attacked him.
     
  20. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Why bother just have Trump issue a pardon before trial and save the cost of a trial. You would need to declare his crimes to be federal.
     
  21. Moolk

    Moolk Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2020
    Messages:
    19,283
    Likes Received:
    14,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If he was attacked and he protected himself in the same manner, yes...he would have the support of the right.

    You can “feel” otherwise, but it is true.
     
  22. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    48,570
    Likes Received:
    32,307
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It will be an interesting prosecutorial decision if the kid isn't charged with the killing (and they find "self-defense").

    I just don't see that happening.

    I feel that the Murder Charge is going to stick.

    Maybe he gets offered a plea to a lesser degree?
     
  23. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,135
    Likes Received:
    4,903
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah but the problem is that no matter how many times you say that unless you can provide a source to back up that claim then it will forever remain nothing more than "you saying that".

    The objective data demonstrates that I am allowed to sit on my deck and empty a 30 round magazine from my AK-47 into my neighbors house because their dog barks too much. I am allowed to do that.

    "Where does the law say you can legally do that?"

    Do your research. It's not my job to do research for you.

    That's literally how you are participating in this discussion right now....
     
  24. Moolk

    Moolk Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2020
    Messages:
    19,283
    Likes Received:
    14,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It doesn’t matter how many times I say it, or dont say it, it still remains the objective fact. He is absolutely allowed to carry in that war zone in order to protect himself. This remains true regardless of the irrational claims otherwise. He defended himself quiet well as well from the violent BLM and antifa terrorists.

    If you wish to disagree, you may. YOu can “feel” however you want, but i will never do your research for you to prove the objective fact I am correct.
     
  25. MissingMayor

    MissingMayor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    7,845
    Likes Received:
    5,495
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The kid looks like he is 15 and any check would have prevented the tragedy. Regardless the police openly supporting the vigilante groups makes them liable as the actions of the vigilantes are illegal and the cops know it.
     
    PARTIZAN1 likes this.

Share This Page