HALF OF Americans Live In Fear Of Medical Bankruptcy

Unfortunately when it comes to medical care, it's best to be a wee bit above the official poverty level and below or uber wealthy, the middle is screwed. For the poor there's Medicaid, and many hospitals, particularly medical schools have sliding scale fees based on income, and the wealthy can negotiate cash services up front, leaving the middle to take the shakedown.

 

Sure you could stop paying it but you'll need medical treatment sooner or later. 30,000 people die every year from a lack of health insurance. That number would be 0 with M4A.

 

Hmmm... The Russian Medicine is free... And it is better, than American one... Oh, I've forgotten it cannot be publish on an American site. I'm sorry, Mr Moderator!

 

All because he didn't want to raise taxes on the wealthy.

 

The death rate will always be 100%.

What you get with M4A is either:
-Astronomical healthcare costs to extend the lives of the unhealthy, or
-Bureaucracies determining when you should have your healthcare cancelled

Which one are you advocating?

 

This is a bad argument MP - We are not talking about Guns - not great analogy on many fronts in this respect- but this is not the main problem with your argument.

The main problem with your argument is that we are not talking about "Free Stuff" - as in getting "More Free Stuff". That is not the situation at all ?!

This is stuff we have already paid for - 3.5 Trillion in 2017. The problem is that we paid 3.5 Trillion - for something we could have gotten for 1.75 Trillion.

Saying lets get rid of medicare-medicaid - is not going to help us solve the above problem without a nuclear bomb going off - or equivalent. Who in Congress is against medicare-medicaid ? - as in supports getting rid of it completely.. this is political suicide. Trump has certainly not taken this position.. so

Next year - in all likelihood - sans the apocalypse in which your dream would be realized - we are going to go out and spend another 3.5 Trillion (that figure is obviously higher) - but what ever that figure is
we are going to spend it - and wishing for the apocalypse will not change this.

So how about we spend half ?

now granted - doing what needs to be done to realize my dream has about as much chance as the apocalypse - also for political reasons - but - perhaps we can get part of the way.
The Conservative Case For Universal Healthcare
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-conservative-case-for-universal-healthcare/

 

Sorry. You need to pay for them, just like your healthcare.

 

Everything you just said isn't supported by the evidence. I'm not posting it all again. That's why I covered those bases in the first post.

 

Hmm, if the US switches to universal healthcare, they're really going to have to crackdown on the border like never before.

Or at the very least very stringently enforce employers having to provide healthcare coverage to their undocumented workers.
(Which would pretty much eliminate low paid unskilled migrant workers overnight, since employers would never want to pay)

We saw in California in the mid-90s how it does not work (politically) to have a segment of society permanently living there who is not entitled to the same hospital privileges as everyone else. Sympathetic activist judges intervened and dictated that the same access had to be opened up to the undocumented migrants. There would be a repeat of this if such a system were ever tried again. And thus (for what is very obvious reasons), this would never be viable in the long-term, over more than two or three decades.

 

Yes, I do. And so does everyone else WHO WANTS healthcare.

 

related thread: my idea for universal medical care compromise

 

You did not provide any evidense that we can keep the unhealthy alive indefinitely at a low cost. Eventually everyone becomes too expensive to keep alive. Who do you want making that determination?

 

You can have whatever healthcare you want, except for the one that I have to help you pay for.

Just like I can't make you help me pay for my gun.

 

You know better than the scholars who calculated the costs.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone is pushing free healthcare.
But maybe you can show me.

 

Are you saying you want 'the scholars' determining when you or I become too expensive to keep alive?

 

No other country that has single-payer has this problem. Not even right-wingers there would trade their system for ours.

 

Silly strawman. I didn't say 'free healthcare' either.

 

No other country has the problem where people eventually become too expensive to keep alive and someone has to determine when to let them die?

You're just avoiding the question.

 

You should be ok, I don't expect pre-x protection to go away, its popular.

No guarantee either way, I have 12 years before Medicare kicks in, that's a long time in this political environment.

Anyway, I'd expect that I would be on the losing end financially if they went medicare-for-all but it is what it is, so I'm not complaining just stating facts, I'll accept it either way. I can see both sides.

 

You completely missed the flaw in your argument (well flaws but I am talking the main one.

You are already having to help pay for it - whether you like it or not. That is not the question being addressed.

You are opting for the "Pay More" option by default.

Go back and read previous post -

 

I pay $50/mo for access to a co-op clinic. And while its true I'm using far less than I'm paying for and others are likely benefitting, I can stop the instant I want to lose access.

Thats my entire point- voluntary participation. Im not opposed to cheap, communal healthcare. Im only opposed to mandatory participation.

 

Medicare for All Would Save $450 Billion Annually While Preventing 68,000 Deaths, New Study Shows - Newsweek

British People Shocked By American Healthcare Prices

 

Then what's your complaint?
What did you mean by free guns too?
Didn't that mean also?

 

But it doesn't save me any money. It'll cost me more.

I'm happy with my $50/mo co-op clinic where I voluntarily support the less healthy. Other people paying more is not my problem, and I'm never going to support mandating it to become my problem.