I'm Not Giving Up The Watchmaker Argument , , , ,

That up there is packed with Faith Based Statements.
You are a Great Man Of Faith.

For All You Know We Need 900 Trillion Dice , , ,
, , , to equal the complexity of the Human Person, the Human
Brain, the Human Eye, the Earth, and the Universe and all the laws
and all the intricate complexity of everything that exists. Lets go with
900 trillion dice., , ,

, , while keeping in mind that we might actually need , , ,

, , , 1800 trillion dice , , ,

, , ,or , ,

, , for all you actually know , , ,

, , we might need 2500 trillion dice to equal the intricate complexity of
the Human Person, the Human Eye, the Human Brain, the Earth, the
Universe and all that is within all of that.

You can NOT prove with Empiricism that if you tossed 2500 trillion dice
in the air enough times for all Eternity --- that all 2500 trillion dice would
come up six's , , ,

Neither can you prove with Empiricism your Faith Based claim
that said "If it's possible, then, given infinity, it's inevitable."PdS

You could not prove that with Empiricism if your life depended on you so
doing , , ,

Or if you were offered $100,000,000 to prove it.

You are a Man Of Great Faith

JAG

 

In understand your point, did from the get-go. As for evolution, I used to teach an advanced graduate level class not only addressing evolution but in the practical understanding in the principles of natural selection applied in other disciplines.
But you missed my point, if nothing was the primordial condition, (depends on one’s definition of nothing), then in fact, a Rolex Watch ultimately came from nothing, but it wasn’t the product of self assembly, but was a product ultimately of natural selection over billions of years.
One additional comment, often those that might agree with the concept of natural selection and evolution have a misconception (particularly those speculating on life elsewhere in the cosmos) that Intelligence is the inevitable product of evolution over time (think the Drake Equation); it isn’t. Consider, assuming we have a reasonable general idea of evolution on earth, the species we define as human have been around perhaps 70,000 plus years. If time and evolution were variables indicating the inevitable emergence of an intelligence producing advanced technology, then dinosaurs, whose existence spanned 100’s million years, would have developed intelligence and advanced technology. However, one of the most successful species that survived their extinction and that continues to propagate has been the cockroach, hardly considered intelligent nor have technology as an adaptive strategy for competitive advantage, but is a species so well adapted to it’s niche, that it will likely continue long beyond human existence ... perhaps, LOL, someday developing civilization and driving around in Roachmobils, wearing tiny Rolexes.

 

It is a Faith Based Belief.
I will present it as a Faith Based Belief.
It does not matter to me how you Spin it.
You don't have to believe it.
You don't even have to read it.
It does not matter to me if you believe it or not.
I shall present the Biblical case that says there is
no such thing as an atheist.

JAG

 

False.
You are a Great Man Of Faith.

For All You Know We Need 900 Trillion Dice , , ,
, , , to equal the complexity of the Human Person, the Human
Brain, the Human Eye, the Earth, and the Universe and all the laws
and all the intricate complexity of everything that exists. Lets go with
900 trillion dice., , ,

, , while keeping in mind that we might actually need , , ,

, , , 1800 trillion dice , , ,

, , ,or , ,

, , for all you actually know , , ,

, , we might need 2500 trillion dice to equal the intricate complexity of
the Human Person, the Human Eye, the Human Brain, the Earth, the
Universe and all that is within all of that.

You can NOT prove with Empiricism that if you tossed 2500 trillion dice
in the air enough times for all Eternity --- that all 2500 trillion dice would
come up six's , , ,

Neither can you prove with Empiricism your Faith Based claim
that said "If it's possible, then, given infinity, it's inevitable."PdS

You could not prove that with Empiricism if your life depended on you so
doing , , ,

Or if you were offered $100,000,000 to prove it.

You are a Man Of Great Faith

JAG

 

THe highlighted is basically the same point I was making. Also, your point about the cockroach proves that survival and intelligence, if they coincide, it's happenstance.

I think it's not intelligence that is important, I think wisdom is important, but what constitutes wisdom depends entirely on what one aligns oneself with. If one aligns oneself with wealth, that wisdom equals wealth, that person's concept of wisdom will be entirely different than someone who meditates in order to eventually achieve 'enlightenment'. In my universe, those who pursue the achievement of wealth over the objective of expanding their consciousness live in poverty and will die in poverty, no matter what is in their bank account. No one believes we take it with us, the 'it' being money. But, I do believe our consciousness continues, perhaps in a new life, only to get more and more chances to achieve enlightenment, until the day happens when we actually do. Maybe I'm dreaming, but that's what I believe.

 

You do know the accepted definition of insanity, eh?

Repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

Never mind.

 

JAG, given your refusal to engage in two-way communication, the point being you are a one-note charlie, I'm placing you on my ignore list.

Discourse is impossible with you, you have only one answer for everything. Sad, but, necessary. Good luck in life. But I have no time for people who have only one answer for life.

 

Good. I am glad. I hope you really do it. Don't disappoint me and "show back up."
I have I think about 8 on my Ignore list.
I love that feature.

Thank you.
Same to you.

JAG

 

What case?

 

This one , , ,

My Faith Based Belief is that you do believe in a personal God.

Romans 1:19-20 says "since what may be known about God is plain to
them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of
the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature
have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made,
so that people are without excuse."

Note the particulars in Romans 1:19-20
{1) There is information that can be known about God.
{2} This information is plain to men.
{3} God Himself has made it plain to them.
{4} It has been plain to them since the creation of the world.
{5} God's eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen
{6} All this in understood from what God created.
{7} Therefore men are without excuse {for not believing in God.}

Romans 1:19-20 is the germ principle of the Teleological Argument
for the existence of God -- the argument from the Intelligent Design
of the Earth and the Universe.

_____________________


Romans 2:15 says the requirements of the Laws of God are
"written on their hearts." So all men know there is a God that
created them.

_____________________


Psalm 19:1-4 says , , ,
"The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world."

Note the particulars in Psalm 19:1-4
{1} The heavens declare something -- they declare God's glory
{2} The sky proclaims something -- it proclaims God's works.
{3} This proclaiming is a form of speech.
{4} Night after night knowledge of God is revealed.
{5} The heavens and sky do not use human-language speech.
{6} Yet their voice-message goes out worldwide to the ends of the earth.

Psalm 19:1-4 is also the germ principle of the Teleological Argument
for the existence of God -- the argument from the Intelligent Design
of the Earth and the Universe.

____________________________


Romans 1:18 says that humans "suppress the truth."
What does this mean? It means that all men know there
is a God, but they deliberately and willfully suppress this
knowledge.

Why would they do this?

Because the Sin Principle operates within them and they
crave above all else to "be their own god" and live their lives
based on the principle of Self-god-Hood and free from the
requirements of the God that created them -- they therefore
turn to Pseudo-Intellectualism and weave a web of surface
self-delusion that enables them to prop up the Big Lie based
upon their false and incorrect , , , ,

~ secularized Intellectualism
~ secularized interpretation and application of Empiricism
~ secularized Rationalism
~ secularized False-god-Science

Conclusion is all men know there is a God and there is no such
thing as a person that does not believe in a personal God.

JAG


``

 

Except for the fact that some people don't know whether there is a god and don't believe that there is.

 

My view is that your claim is incorrect -- all men know
there is a God that created them
You asked "What case?" -- so I gave you the Biblical case.

JAG

 

And my faith based belief is that you dont believe that. Do you have any actual point?

 

The bible is wrong.

 

Bible Case? Well now, that is no case at all. You’ve Already suggested, “We are NOT saved based on our "good works" which are such as our "Honesty" and "Honor" and "Integrity" -- rather we are saved by our renouncing our "good works" as the method and means of our salvation and turning to Faith in Christ's righteousness which is credited to our account when we come to believe in Him as our
Savior.” Which means in renouncing Honesty, Honor, and integrity there can be no honest means to evaluate the validity of anything in the Bible other than take your word for it’s interpretation. But, despite assertions that morality is bestowed by the Divine, it would seem that morality doesn’t include "Honesty" and "Honor" and "Integrity", all attributes necessary for assessing any logical construct. Given, the renunciation of good works such as "Honesty" and "Honor" and "Integrity" how can your word for anything be ‘believed’ and taken seriously? Hmm... something doesn’t work here. I will stake my immutable moral code against that of what is prescribed by the Bible if such renunciation is part of that prescription. Further, if there is a God, and I am unafraid of admitting I don’t know if there is or isn’t, and if there is, I will stake my adherence to my moral code as a measure over that of those attending services once a week (if at all), and proclaiming to be believers (maybe they are; maybe not; honesty isn’t required). Hmmm... would *******n a moral man if he was honest about his doubts? If so, under the logic you presented to me, to be eligible to be saved has nothing to do with morality, but with believing, which extrapolated means, a man could be a lying, cheating, scum bag with no integrity, but if he believes, he can be saved. Wow, no wonder politicians all profess a belief in God, I missed that lesson.

 

Where did your god make anything plain to me?

So because I see a tree or a rock you think I am supposed to believe in a god?

The old question: If there is a god who really wants man to believe why does this god not give obvious signs, host a party?
It was George Burns, in the comedy about your god, who said "my last miracle was the '69 Mets". How about another one?

I ask my other question again: Where did god come from?
If I am to believe, I want a little more background information on this guy.
If the bible is this guy's resume I would never hire him.

When god became lonely he created man.
Or was it the other way around?
When man became lonely he created god.

 

The greatest scam ever concocted.

 

You simply quoted from a book.which, by the way, could be called 'Biased'.

 

You quoted from a book in which there are talking snakes and volcanoes, men walk on water and people with epilepsy are possessed by demons, for goodness sake educate yourself and put your book written by goat herders back in the fiction section where it belongs!

 

False.
The Bible is correct.

__________

All Scripture Is "God-breathed" Which Means Inspired By God , , ,
"You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith,
patience, love, endurance, persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things
happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured.

Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. In fact, everyone who wants to
live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evildoers and
impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become
convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,
and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which
are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of
God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work
___.2 Timothy 3:10-17

JAG

``

 

You can answer your own questions.
Google is your friend.
You can start here.
20 Arguments For The Existence Of God
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm

Meanwhile , , ,
There is no such thing as an atheist . . .
My view is a Faith Based Belief.
I will present it as a Faith Based Belief.
It does not matter to me how you Spin it.
You don't have to believe it.
You don't even have to read it.
It does not matter to me if you believe it or not.
I shall continue to present the Biblical case that
says there is no such thing as an atheist.

JAG


``

 

You quoted from a book in which there are talking snakes and volcanoes, men walk on water and people with epilepsy are possessed by demons, for goodness sake educate yourself and put your book written by goat herders back in the fiction section where it belongs! The bible can be proved false on many subjects that is not debatable!

 

Provably false.

According to Everett, the Pirahã have no concept of a supreme spirit or god,[9] and they lost interest in Jesus when they discovered that Everett had never seen him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirahã_people

 

False.
The greatest scam ever concocted is a combination of , , ,

The Religion Of Atheism
The Religion Of Evolution
The Religion Of False-god-Science
The Religion Of False-god-Logic
The Religion Of False-god-Secularized Intellectualism , , ,

, , and , ,

The Religion Of False-god-Honor , , , , ,{as a substitute for faith in God }
The Religion Of False-god-Integrity , , , {as a substitute for faith in God}
The Religion of False=god-Honesty , , ,{as a substitute for faith in God}

All that up there is where the real and true scams are located.

JAG


``

 

Suggesting any of the above are religions is a scam, perpetrated by fundamentalists who wish to smuggle religion into the science classroom.