Nobody is talking healthcare—and it would elect Biden

Not really very variable from hospital to hospital - which is why “magnet” is an American idea

 

Of course I do. The assertion for Obama Care was uninsured people couldn't get healthcare. That is BS! There is no need to change it.

 

How? Competition and greed. You think of those as business characteristics- but they are buyer characteristics as well. Buyers want the best price, the most for their money. All kinds of businesses advertise to you constantly telling you why they have the best deal, but of course medical care is never one of them, because they have a lock on you.

If you run a grocery store or a gas station and refuse to be competitive with others in the business- you will soon be out of business, because the customers simply will go elsewhere. Competition regulates not only profit, but existence- and it is the consumers that call the shots in a competitive market. You provide what they need and want at the best price possible- or they abandon you, and you are out of the game. UNLESS the game is not competitive. Then, the consumer is not in charge- and lacking the competitive market, abuse, packing prices and corruption of all kinds set in. That is exactly where we are right now.

Healthcare is- a business as well as a profession; business principles do apply..... Unless we void them with regulation, government restrictions and the like.
If company A is making what appears to be an excess profit- Companies B and C will appear to take advantage of the profit opportunity. As business goes to the company with the best deal, prices are forced down, by competition. They don't become non-profit entities, but they are forced to do every part of their job more efficiently to gain sales while being as profitable as they can. That is the driving force behind the rest of our economy and you don't see anywhere else with the degree of gross gouging that is taking place in medicine.

What laws need to do is make competition practical in healthcare (prevent monopolies) and prevent predatory abuse of the providers in that industry. You should know who the predators are- they advertise everywhere, telling you that you have experienced any medical condition that wasn't perfect, you been abused and are entitled to part of a multi-billion dollar judgement, which they will get for you if you give them half of it. And they only charge you $300-400 an hour. That is a massive and very profitable industry that feeds off the condition of controlled, non-competitive healthcare- and you. It too is greed-driven, but not competitive.

When government controls, competition is eliminated and you rely on the integrity and honor of politicians to be sure you are provided a fair deal. Ask yourself why anyone would believe that any group of politicians of any party would really do that, and how many times they have promised it and how many times they have actually delivered it.

I've been a businessman and owner for 53 years. I know how to make money- in most any business, because it is the management approach that controls that. But, one has to recognize when the opportunity to do so exists, and how. You can make money by being competitive and providing excellent products and service- or by controlling the market, eliminating competition in a monopoly so your customers have no choice and have to pay what is asked. In the latter situation, it is always excess regulation and legislation that hamstrings the situation, and destroys the opportunity that would otherwise drive the industry.

With government health care- you don't get to shop at all, there is no competition- with one exception, known as health care travel. That means you go outside our system to make it compete against those of other countries.

If you need an artificial hip, you can buy a package deal which flies you to Spain, provides hotel, hospital, surgery, recovery and all needs, with very high quality- then flies you home. All inclusive deal. Then you can pay the total bill for that package with the deductible you would have had to pay if the operation was done is the USA with insurance... which would still not have covered the fringe benefits or associated costs. That is competition- but, you have to leave the country to find it.

We should be allowing health care to become competitive, because that is where all the costs are generated- and we need to eliminate the predatory industry that feeds on them.

 

After Obamacare, healthcare is a loser if you're a Democrat. Americans don't trust the Democrats to fix this problem. The Democrats deceptively and maliciously destroyed American healthcare, America will never forget that. The Democrat party is self destructing and is dragging America down with it, while the older corrupt relics age out they're being replaced by clueless children. These Democrats are not at all about democracy and there's little distinction between AOC, Omar et al and Antifa and BLM. The solution to the healthcare problem is in the voting booth, vote for America or vote Democrat.

 

Huh?

Obamacare made it possible for most individuals and families to be able to afford the premiums for a health plan. What is it that you think Obamacare is?

 

But throughout most of the 20th century that is precisely what you had, an unregulated industry that did compete, and what wound up happening is that more and more people kept being denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions. And premiums only went up, not down. Unless you worked for a very large organization or an industry that has bargaining agreements with unions, most people just went without, or worse, bought policies that did not have full medical coverage or had cap limits, forcing many people into bankruptcy.

Medical care is just not an industry that fits well into a capitalist system for a variety of reasons, first and foremost because you as the consumer are not the actual buying consumer. It is your doctor that decides based upon his training what is the most appropriate treatment. It is because of this knowledge gap that you as a consumer have little if any bargaining power. Without government regulation, your life literally can hang in the balance.

 

Spoken like someone who never has an Obama Care policy. Posted 2015.

I actually had an Obama Care "Silver" plan. I live in a Rural area with a small/medium size hospital and 3 medical groups, 1 large and 2 small. The hospital accepted my policy but the 1 large medical group that staffs the hospital doctors does NOT. That means if I'm hospitalized my policy coverage's with deductible and yearly out of pocket applies to the Hospital's bill but not the Doctors who would be out of network and covered only 30%. Since the Doctors and Facilities in the area accept Obama Care policies from just 2 providers, the networks are very important. Provider #1's insurance covers a number of doctors in my area, but if I needed services like X-Ray, MRI and such I had to drive 45 miles down a mountain road if I didn't want to pay 70% of the bill. Provider #2's insurance covered a number of facilities in my area so if I needed services like X-Ray, MRI and such they are available locally, however if I want to see a doctor I had to drive 45 miles down a mountain road if I didn't want to pay 70% of the bill. With the Obama Crap plan, I have to make a 90 mile round trip for a stinking X-Ray. Since I live in the mountains, the road to the flat lands isn't always available so if I needed an X-Ray I'm just (*)(*)(*)(*) outta luck and have to pay the 70%.

I couldn't cancel my Obama Crap policy fast enough. Obama Care apparently has no provisions for canceling mid-year. The subsidies stopped and so did the coverage. It's all good....right? Wrong! When I did my taxes my subsidies were calculated in accordance with my gross wages for the YEAR. Since I went from 28 to 40 hours my income rose substantially. I got hammered on my taxes, even though the policy was gone and so were the subsidies half way through the year. Don't get me started on the deductible and yearly out of pocket. Thanks Obama and the Democrats.....

PLEASE STOP HELPING ME!​

 

First off, I'm currently on a Covered California plan, so I do know what I'm talking about.

Sounds like you live in Northern CA from what you are describing. The issue you have is with the providers, NOT Covered CA, aka Obamacare. Yes, it is a hassle when your wages go up. That's part of the problem with the current system; you're not going to get everything you want, but you do get what you need. No one is forced to have Obamacare unless you need the subsidies to pay the premium.

If you want to pay full premium then be my guest. Obamacare is a compromise, but you would rather have nothing rather than something? I don't get that kind of thinking. If you're over 50, it only takes one health emergency for you to realize how expensive medical care is.

I also find it really odd that none of your local providers have an x-ray machine, then again, that's the price for rural living.

 

WHAT? I was forced in 2014 and 2015 to take Obama Care or the Government would rob me of $600 at tax time.

 

BALANCE is indeed the key word.
I understand the issue with pre-existing conditions. I've been there, in a way that wasn't accurately applied. At the same time, one must recognize that insuring a a person with a pre-existing condition without a premium that reflects the risk is a bit like insuring a house that is already on fire. It become welfare- and certainly would allowed people to not buy insurance while they were healthy, then get it after they were sick.
No matter how you frame that- it's welfare; shift costs to other people.

I agree that in some ways health care is not the same as other businesses- but in many ways it is. But if you read my case, the concept was to reduce the ludicrous cost of care in the first place. IF you do that, you make care more affordable for everyone, by whatever method we choose- a hell of a lot more practical. However- I've yet to see any health plan or political address toward health care that focuses on the cost of care, rather than how to distribute the cost as is. That is really stupid in my opinion.

I'm well over 50- I'm 79. I'm also fully covered, but that is quite expensive; I've prepared well and can afford it. If I were a young man with the medical bills of today, I have no idea what I would do. I can see that for many, it's a choice between coverage and other basics of life that are pretty fundamental.

Let me give you a way to compare the changes that have occurred in health care on a relative basis, something anyone can understand.

In 1963, my first son was born. No insurance; I made $85 a week. The doctor, with full prenatal care and delivery- $125. The three-day hospital charge- also $125. Total cost of that child, $250.
Now that was almost exactly 3 weeks wages, for a man of 23, at the time an assistant manager in a grocery store. Keep in mind the relationship between my pretty much average income at the time and total cost; that offsets actual inflation and highlights disproportionate cost increases. Also, keep in mind that this is a medical process that has virtually remained unchanged over time, thus we are comparing like services. Unless exception calls for it, there is no MRI or special treatment that would be done today but didn't exist and wasn't included 60 years ago. None of our children presented any need for that; everything was normal; just as a healthy child born today- except they would never have your in the hospital for three days now, which was typical then.

My second son was born 5 years later. At that time, I made $160 week- and the total bill for doctor and hospital was $1600, which meant that even though I made almost twice as much money, the same health service took 10 weeks of my pay to cover instead of 3.

My third son was born about 5 years after that. By then, I was in business for myself, doing pretty well, making about $450 week. The total doctor/hospital bills were $8450, which means that despite my income had again increased almost triple- it was then taking almost 19 weeks of my paychecks to pay for the same service.

In 10 years, the cost of the same service increased from $250 to $8450, or 33.8 times.... 3380%. The general inflation during those same years was 139%.
Imagine a loaf of bread costing $1 being sold at $33 10 years later- and of course, a lot more today.

I had no insurance during those years, so I am totally aware of what the costs were, and the disproportionate way in which they were rising. I have a bill in hand today for a recent ER visit, in which the base change for coming in the door is a few bucks shy of $3,000. The charge for being there just over an hour- mostly waiting time- just shy of $14,000. Why would any of us not know that this was lunacy?
That IS why your insurance premiums are unaffordable. Again- we should be lowering the cost of providing the services, so we can lower the insurance and make it affordable.
I'm not opposed to some form of broad health care- I'm opposed to it bankrupting everyone, so the lawyers and manipulators can get rich. Hospitals must make a profit. Doctors should make a very good income too- and that is not unreasonable, nor the reason for ludicrous costs. But right now, an ObGyn that delivers babies is paying as much as $200,000 a year for liability insurance. That's $3850 bucks a week. If that doctor delivers 52 babies a year, $3850 of the bill for every baby is nothing but insurance for the doctor. That and similar charge is built into all the bills generated hospital, etc, and then into the insurance premiums you pay.

Try having three kids today uninsured, as I did when mine were born.