Dr. Fauci Just Said How You'll Most Likely Get COVID

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by CenterField, Sep 10, 2020.

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  1. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/dr-fauci-just-said-youll-203948720.html

    A lot of people blame Dr. Fauci for a number of things, and I confess that I won't forgive him for the lie about wearing masks being non-protective for the wearer.

    So, I expect people to shoot the messenger and disregard what he is saying, just because he is the one saying it. But truly, what he is saying above makes A LOT of sense. So I recommend that you all read this article which is very interesting, regardless of how you feel about him.

    It's from Grand Rounds that he presented at Harvard Medical School.

    PS - The person he says he won't name but is criticizing for the approach to Herd Immunity is obviously Dr. Scott Atlas (their disagreement is well known). I find that Fauci is way more qualified than Atlas, and is absolutely correct in saying that Atlas' approach is wrong.

    At the end Fauci quotes this list of places and activities that are less or more likely to get you sick with this disease, which is also important reading:

    https://www.eatthis.com/covid-19-hi...-news&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=yahoo-feed
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  2. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Sure you posted the right link?
     
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Anthony Fauci reminds me of the Pied Piper. He plays the flute, and the credulous (and complicit) and naive follow him, mesmerized.
     
  4. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In an effort to stretch out his fifteen minutes of fame, Fauci has changed his position a half dozen times.
    Ignoring his banter may be the best practice.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
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  5. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Have you actually read what he said or are you just shooting the messenger due to a prejudice? (Pre-in advance; judice-judgment). Because what I'm saying is that regardless of how you feel about him, what he is saying in this presentation to Harvard Medical School, makes sense.
     
  6. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And I am speaking to his "wear a mask", "masks are not needed", "there is nothing to get alarmed about", "this will infect everybody" flip flops.
    https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/faucis-flip-flops/
     
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  7. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, like I said, I didn't like these, either.
    What I'm saying is that THIS time what he is saying makes sense and is interesting. Try to not shoot the messenger and just look at the content.
     
  8. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Silly people following the evidence instead of fringe conspiracy theories!
     
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  9. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Well it’s taken all day in bits and pieces but I’ve made it through the presentation portion of Fauci’s grand rounds appearance. Here’s my random impressions, criticisms, WTF’s, and commentary.

    To start, I’ve never really watched or listened to the man except maybe a 30 second clip here or there. He gives a fine presentation in form.

    Some of the substance has me scratching my head a bit. He explains 45-50% of infected persons are asymptomatic. Then says that group is responsible for 50% of spread. Then seems concerned that’s the case. It’s more logical to be concerned the 50% symptomatic are causing 50% of the spread even though at some point they “know” they are sick to some extent. This means self quarantining, testing of symptomatic individuals, and contact tracing is doing very little good. That’s the scary part, not that the asymptomatic group is causing 50% of the spread. What’s more concerning, people unaware they are spreaders causing 50% of the damage or people aware at least at some point during contagious period they may be/are contagious causing 50% of the damage?

    Then the subject of aerosol spread. He admits it’s a bigger factor in spread of infections than experts claimed early on. Then he mentions aerosols easily move beyond 6 ft. Then he says 6 ft social distancing is “good enough”. At this point I start to get the feeling he/we/some entity isn’t serious about real mitigation.

    Next masks. Some statistics on how well they work. Information on what environments are most likely to facilitate spread (confined, low ventilation, etc.). A slide on how they are more effective in healthcare settings than public places. Information on hand washing etc. after admitting we don’t know the prevalence of fomite spread. Then, still no recommendation on mask usage at home where we are supposed to hunker down for the winter. To me the absolute absurdity of recommending masks in public because of their effectiveness but not at home solidifies the above feeling we aren’t serious about mitigation. We like to pretend we are, but we aren’t. Masks ought to be more than virtue signals if we are going to accept they work. Let them work where the most work needs doing.

    Then the part that made me laugh. I’ve seen a lot of pushback on citing pre print studies from respected journals. Mostly from people who think Fauci is a demigod. Yep, he cited and had a slide of one in his PowerPoint. LOL

    The general information was good and presented in a manner appropriate for almost all listening audiences. That’s a big accomplishment and a talent few posses.

    What really concerned me was the general attitude of deference, awe, and outright literal hero worship of the man by other participants in the grand rounds. Now don’t get me wrong, you have to respect a man a bit just for being able to please such a diverse group of politicians for so long. And while I think he has his failings just as we all do, he’s obviously intelligent and talented. That said, looking to one man as the definitive authority on the science is dangerous. In the introduction he was literally called a hero. The lady who introduced him said when she met him years ago she was so enamored with him then that after he shook her hand she felt like she never wanted to wash it again. WTF? The preamble to the question period was almost as bad. Supposedly 1/3 of the thousands of questions submitted by professionals were primarily praise and adoration. Again, I have respect for merit, but this was utterly ridiculous. When we focus on a man, we aren’t focused on many men and women with possibly more knowledge and better ideas. Hero worship of a bureaucrat no matter his other accomplishments scares the bejeesus out of me. Enough of that but it leads me to this next observation.

    The big takeaway for me personally was how when it was over and I started thinking about all the above, I was so thankful I don’t have to depend on Fauci, the government, or anyone else for my safety in a pandemic. I’m so grateful for the influences in my life that led me to a place where incompetence of others can’t directly affect my personal health. I hope this pandemic prompts many others to pursue the same. It’s worth it.
     
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  10. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As usual, you make good points. I did not watch the grand rounds. I based my OP comments on the excerpts published by the source; I figured that they likely highlighted the main points so I didn't feel like spending a couple of hours doing what you did. Therefore I need to defer to you because you must have had a better view of the whole thing. This said, let me comment a bit on what you said.
    Well, I'm not surprised that a highly educated man with decades of public service heading a complex federal agency is intelligent and articulate. Probably 95% of the people who berate him are much less educated and much less intelligent than he is (I'm definitely NOT looking at you when I say this, but rather, at other detractors).
    The thing is, we lost control of this months ago. Yes, we could have handled it by quarantining and contact tracing, if not for the fact that our covidiot-in-chief, of his own confession, knew very well what this virus was all about, but chose to lie to the nation, dismiss and minimize the threat, and wast 5 freaking weeks playing golf instead of immediately jumping into beefing up testing capacity and hiring an army of contact tracers and activating the National Guard to enforce quarantine of arrivals, and by only implementing a partial travel ban more porous than a Swiss cheese, allowed 40,000 arrivals from China to seed the virus everywhere. Once the covidiot-in-chief botched the response and the virus is widespread in the community, contact tracing is a ship that has sailed. Yes, it is doing very little good because the virus is already everywhere by the millions. It would have worked when we had a few cases; that was the time to act and prepare but the covidiot-in-chief was too scared that his beloved economy would be damaged, so that knowingly and willingly he downplayed the threat and did little. Many of his cultists traditionally used the excuse that he couldn't have known because his experts including Fauci gave him bad advice. Well, now we know, from his own words on tape, that it wasn't the case, that he perfectly knew BY February 9th when he talked to Bob Woodward (likely knew even earlier) that the virus was deadly, much worse than the flu, very contagious, and airborne. But no, how could he stop everything and miss his golf practices? Of course golf takes priority over the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans and over a destroyed economy, right? (There is nothing worse for an economy than an out-of-control outbreak of a deadly airborne disease - forget the lockdown damage; the real economic damage resides in NOT controlling this thing - look at Germany; they controlled it and now have a much smaller unemployment rate than we do, and their economy is roaring back much better than ours).
    Yes, that's weird. I didn't watch it but I take your word for it. Likely he should have said "we need to increase the length of the social distancing in view of this new information." But I think what he is going for is the same of that joke I've mentioned about Walmart. Someone says, "Huh, Walmart is now requiring customers to wear a face mask" and the other person responds "Good luck with that; they can't even get their customers to wear pants." So, I guess Fauci knows that not even 6ft has had a lot of traction, so, it's kind of hopeless to hope for 12ft, people would just call it fear mongering and shrug it away, especially because the covidiot-in-chief never committed to strongly supporting epidemiological containment measures, so knowing that 6ft is way better than nothing and still stops the droplet part, Fauci is running with it. I don't like it, I think it's similar to the mistake (actually, lie) of saying that masks don't protect the wearer, and it would be preferable to be very honest and upfront about everything, but I do understand that Fauci has this shortcoming of going for white lies that he thinks will be beneficial. That's my main criticism of him, and I haven't been one of his biggest fans, but hey, like you said, nobody is perfect.
    May be another case of the Walmart joke, and I have to say this: even I don't wear a mask at home. Both my wife and I are hospital-based healthcare workers. She is even more exposed than I am because she works closer to Covid-19 patients predominantly with direct care, while I do a lot more teaching and administrative work and while I do provide direct care, it is less often than she does. So, it's more likely that she, God forbid, will catch this, and if she does, not wearing a mask at home enhances the odds that she would pass it on to me, too... So we tried at one point to wear masks at home... she moved to another bedroom... we divided up utensils, even planned on what part of the refrigerator bar each one would touch to open the refrigerator door... but then, frankly, it's very hard to stay away for months from my strikingly beautiful and sexy wife... and little by little we got closer and intimate again... and we figured that we'd pass the virus to each other this way anyway, so screw the masks (pun not intended, LOL). So again, if we can't even get people to consistently wear masks outside, it's kind of a huge uphill battle to get them to wear masks at home too... so I guess Fauci fights the battles that he thinks he can win. Isn't that at least a lot better than seeing the covidiot-in-chief berating a reporter for wearing a mask, and praising another one for not wearing one???
    Oh, come on, some pre-print studies are high quality and haven't been through peer review yet just because of a backlog, but Fauci is *perfectly* equipped to read a study and identify methodology strength, correct approach of the data, etc., so he is his own peer reviewer, and if he quotes something, I am fully confident that it is a sound study. He pushes back against the lay public and even some professionals running wild with low-quality non-peer reviewed studies, but *he* can tell the difference between a low-quality and a high-quality study so I have no problem with his citation of a not-yet-peer-reviewed study. I trust his judgment on this. The man is obviously competent. We can say whatever about his questionable choices regarding transparency and telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth to the public, but incompetence is definitely not one of his shortcomings.
    Yep, like I said, unsurprisingly, he is smart, competent, and articulate.
    Well, that is absolutely not his fault, is it? And it's still better than some part of the population idolizes a man of science, as compared to another part of the population idolizing the covidiot-in-chief.
    Good for you. But it's not the case for the vast majority of Americans, and we as a nation and as a people are suffering from the mismanagement and the undermining of the containment measures, exercised by Fauci's boss, the said covidiot-in-chief.
     
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  11. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    The messenger in this case.lost all credibility with his lies about mask. He needs to just go away
     
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  12. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    This is the person that claims to be nonpartisan and started a thread saying he was undecided.:roll:
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  13. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @557 some typos above, as usual; I always type too fast and don't have the time to come back to proofread before the end of the 15-minute window (I hate it that the window here is so short; other sites have 4 hours, 24 hours, and even days). I meant WASTE five freaking weeks, and I meant that regarding the Fauci worship, it's better THAT some part... etc. Well, I figure, anybody reading it would know that these are typos and would get what I meant but my obsessive self gets crazy about all the typos that I can't correct past 15 minutes... pet peeve. LOL
     
  14. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    You were correct that there wasn’t anything new or earth shattering. I guess personally I was disappointed by that. Never having experienced this kind of of presentation I expected it to be more technical. From what you’ve taught me about grand rounds though I’m sure this was atypical in that regard. This seemed a bit of a pep rally/fun event which is GREAT, my criticism of the hero worship mindset in no way means I don’t appreciate the hard work and dedication of health professionals. You all deserve chances to breath easier and take some pleasure in your profession.
    I’m certainly at a disadvantage to Fauci on the formal post secondary education front. :) I’ll let the content of my posts here at PF speak to the rest...LOL.

    To clarify to the third party reader, my intention in participating in this thread isn’t to be a Fauci detractor. It’s to address the content of his presentation.
    I’m too ignorant of the Woodward thing to comment. Maybe when all the BS from both sides calms down I’ll look it over. Again this is a question from ignorance, but if Woodward knew the facts on February 9, why didn’t he inform me of those facts then? Isn’t that the supposed point of his career?

    Anyway, I get your point about early mistakes. I was self quarantined for about four months to see how things would shake out. Turns out it was kind of pointless. Except I didn’t have to be frightened, didn’t have to worry about food, fuel, toilet paper, etc. It was worth it for my personal safety and happiness but pointless in stopping a pandemic others weren’t serious about stopping.

    My main point with the 50% infections still originating from symptomatic individuals is focused on today, however. What we are doing now appears to be marginally effective at best. The fact the experts can’t see that in the statistics they quote concerns me.
    Point taken on Wal mart analogy. More on that theme later, but it’s a very valid point. I also see this as similar to the mask lie which I can’t rationalize as anything else either. But if we want hard truths and expect them from Trump we must require them of Fauci. Not disseminating information because it won’t be universally accepted by everyone is a poor excuse for not providing it. If it saves one life it’s worth it, right? :)
    I’m not sure you were around or followed my previous forays into mask wearing so I’ll try and be comprehensive on my views. I’ll preface this with two points. One, I know you are not authoritarian on this or other issues. What follows is not criticism of you or your personal decisions on mask wearing. Second, what follows is why many here hate me.

    So, I don’t wear a mask at home. The only times I’ve worn a mask at all is the half dozen times I’ve visited businesses requiring masks. All these cases of mask wearing/shopping having occurred since the first part of July I believe. I can’t remember exactly the first time I visited a store since February, but I’m on record here somewhere at PF on the matter. Anyway, I’m pro choice on masks. I accept evidence we have on efficacy. I recommend their use by individuals and demographics who are concerned about infection. I advocate for their use even if it’s inconvenient if transmission of the virus is your top priority.

    However, it ISN’T anyone’s top priority. This is where the hate comes in. I’m hard on people that wish to force behavior on others or attempt to shame them into behavior when they themselves make personal decisions that prioritize pleasure or convenience over viral transmission. To be blunt, on masks and other mitigations some wish to use force to achieve, I expose hypocrisy. That generates the animosity.

    I understand and respect your choices at home. I understand and respect everyone’s choices in public as well. Freedom cuts both ways. If I want the freedom to make my choices, at home or in public, I must respect the right of others to do so. What I don’t respect is criticism of other’s choices when the critical individual is making personal choices out of “selfishness” as well.


    I guess I wasn’t clear. This was no criticism of Fauci. It was criticism of people who won’t consider evidence offered in pre print journals or individual pre print studies. I present pre print material regularly and sometimes get chastised for it. I think it’s funny those who get the most upset at me for considering such evidence as valid think Fauci walks on water, yet there he was, using such evidence in a “virtual room” full of professionals. It just tickled my funny bone.
    Well, that is absolutely not his fault, is it? And it's still better than some part of the population idolizes a man of science, as compared to another part of the population idolizing the covidiot-in-chief.
    [/QUOTE]
    There is danger in idolizing anyone. There is grave danger in idolizing those in positions of power. History makes this clear. No it isn’t Fauci’s fault. It’s human nature amplified by societal influencers with a vested interest in being the resultant authoritative figures. Fauci is being used in my opinion. I feel sorry for him in a way.
    Like I said, hopefully others will see the value in not being subject to the whims of Trump, Biden, or any other nut who comes along. Clearly the quality of leadership isn’t improving no matter which party you vote for. Why subjective ourselves to their influences in areas we don’t have to?
     
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  15. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    No worries. I type most everything I post on a phone so I know many errors of mine go uncorrected. I agree 5 minutes isn’t long enough to edit. I’ve had big mistakes in quoting formats be permanent because I’ve been busy after posting and find the mistake too late...

    The only time I get grammar, spelling, or punctuation Nazi is if a conversation has already degenerated to ad hominem or someone complains to me first. I see no danger of either between us. If something doesn’t make sense I’ll ask for clarification, please do likewise.

    You must have above average “keyboarding skills”. You post a large volume of content in a short amount of time. It’s frustrating to watch you as I peck away with one hand on a phone while often using my other hand for manipulating tractor controls or opening/shutting gates etc. :)

    Oh, in defense of forum time to edit rules, it does go far to keep people honest and accountable in content.
     
  16. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy reading your posts and have learned quite a bit. I had the same questions about who to vote for so your thread helped tremendously.

    As for the short window for editing, I usually copy the text into Notepad and answer that way as I typically don't have time to complete a long response in one sitting. I hope that helps but I think you are correct that most of us know what you mean even with the typos. ;-0

    Thanks to you and your wife for your contributions to health care especially during this crisis. Stay safe out there.
     
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  17. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @577 , not responding point by point for lack of time, but yes, Woodward should have mentioned it back in February, I think he violated the principles of journalistic ethics by not doing it for the sake of selling a book, later. But hey, much bigger blame is to be assigned to Trump... Woodward is not the freaking POTUS.

    Yes, I agree with the hypocrisy of preaching something and doing something different, regarding masks. I know you didn't mean it for me, but in my defense, I never really advocated for masks at home (unless someone is caring for a relative with a confirmed case of COVID-19 or during the days of waiting for the test results of a household member with severe exposure to a known case), and my decision and my wife's only affect the two of us and not public health, given that when we go out of the home we wear N95s actually with an ASTM level 3 mask on top of it and rubber braces (really tight seal, no breathing in or out without the air going through the mask's filter), so we are really not a source of contagion for the community (and in the hospital we add goggles and even a face shield on top of the goggles, and we are subject to daily screening at entry points, with temperature checks and symptom questionnaire). So, yes, not wearing a mask at home exposes me to her and exposes her to me, but again, it's kind of a moot point since we have resumed sleeping together in the biblical and non-biblical senses... so a mask would not really stop the inter-couple contagion. I mean, we tried, but we couldn't manage to stay away from each other for months, because fortunately we do have an extremely loving relationship. In these hard times, enjoying each other's company and intimacy is essential to our mental health and to our ability to keep going strongly in our professional activities.

    This said if one of us develops symptoms we'll immediately move to full blown PPE use at home as well, to see if the other one escapes the contagion, although it's unlikely that we would catch it before it passed from one to the other during asymptomatic transmission phase. Oh well, we're incurring a risk. But dammit, regarding risks, we incur a much bigger risk by just going daily to the hospital and by working there, with active Covid-19 cases.

    And yes, as you know, I am for mask education, not for mask mandates.

    Glad to know that you don't place yourself among Fauci's detractors. I have objections to Fauci but generally think that he means well and is competent.

    About my typing: one of the greatest things my late mother did for me (among many others, God bless her soul), was that circa the age of 10 she got me to typing school and said it was not sufficient to learn typing like everybody else but I had to achieve the highest speed and accuracy possible because it would serve me well for my entire life. Indeed, I'm a very fast typist, all ten fingers, no need to look at the keyboard at all, and fairly accurate, but yes, speed does increase the likelihood of typos.

    @MJ Davies thanks for your kind words.
     
  18. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    We're talking about Feb 7th, it wasn't widespread not even a handful of cases were known in America. Fauci was saying it was under control in America 3 weeks later. Fauci was saying it might diminish during warmer months. All the things your hammering Trump for saying, we know where he got it because we also heard Fauci say this over the next couple of weeks AFTER the interview. Maybe just maybe they had found out WHO and China were lying and knew it could spread airborne BUT with so few of cases there was no reason to panic Americans because the DRs thought the few cases in America were well quarantined and contact traced. If the interview would've been in March when we knew it was spreading in AMERICA, I would be pissed at Trump but Feb 7th, we were finishing impeachment. We knew about the virus, we knew it was rapidly spreading in China, Trump spoke on it 2 days earlier in the State of the Union, Nancy said he was distracting the country by using the virus to distract from impeachment. Fauci and our Scientist didn't know what they didn't know on Feb 7th so I don't blame them and sure as hell don't blame the President from listening to them.
     
  19. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, come on, just yesterday he was minimizing it again, and he was talking again against masks. That's 9 months and 200,000 deaths into the American outbreak. We have a president who undermines containment efforts constantly and a White House that now is putting pressure on the CDC to decrease testing. All of this, for the president to look good. I'm sick and tired of it, and he lost my vote.
     
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  20. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    I noticed the place you are most likely to get Covid 19 is voting for Biden whether in person or by mail.
     
  21. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    I wear a mask when I am out and use a new mask daily. Sanitize my hands before I enter and after I leave any location. I social distance as much as I can when not at work, especially from old people and black men who often as a group do not wear a mask in this area. When at work, I still try to maintain as much distance as possible and not touch anything I don't absolutely have to touch out of necessity. I shop at off hours on off days when the stores have the least number of people in them. Not much more I can do. I have been working regularly hours since the beginning, and so far so good so far as I know.
     
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  22. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Or in some cases creating the evidence.
     
  23. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Trump and his followers often fabricate "evidence" in order to mislead the public. Agreed.
     
  24. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Yes just like Dr. Fauci.
     
  25. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    I worked at a different site every day and ate out in restaurants, stayed in hotels, went shopping, and everything a normal person does since before this stuff began. Ultimately, my 18 year old brought it home to me and we are all now fine and immune to this for a few months. We're about to go out to eat with some of my wife's high school friends. I'm done with this hysteria. The only thing I still do is my best to protect my parents. Everything else is back to normal.
     

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