I'm tired of the "Corporations need to pay their fair share" BS mantra

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by DentalFloss, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Which doesn't negate the fact we need to fix our infrastructure.
     
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  2. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Yes, taxes on corporations are very regressive.
     
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  3. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    By now everyone should know that our corrupt bipartisan ruling political class will never fix our infrastructure.
    But Americans will get to pay governments to "fix" it every few years - forever.

    “In recent years, despite thousands of bills introduced into Congress every year, only a small percentage (approximately 5%) become law. Of course, what matters for laws is quality not quantity. But why would legislators bother to introduce so many hopeless bills? What if they are not even designed to pass? What if they are instead designed to make money? The cold harsh reality in Washington is this: the very conditions that are so maddening for most Americans —gridlock, problems being ignored, hyper partisanship — are the very conditions that are most lucrative for the Permanent Political Class. Washington may not be working for citizens, but it's working quite well for members of the Permanent Political Class who profit handsomely.” EXTORTION, "How Politicians Extract Your money, BuyVotes, And Line Their Own Pockets, Peter Schweizer, HMO, NY, NY, 2013, p. 7, 8.

    $$$
     
  4. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    It appears you're open to reason, but you can't stop making the fallacious claim that corporate income tax causes inflation. It doesn't make any sense logically, and the data shows the opposite.

    Yes, corporate income tax reduces the "net take-home pay" of a corporation, just like it reduces our paychecks. Corporations have the same options we do: find more work, cut down on costs, or just suck it up and cancel next year's trip to Rio. They can no more raise prices and expect to succeed than a group of workers could demand an increase in pay because of a tax hike and hope to get it. Indeed, a labor union has more influence over an employer's decisions than a company has over its customers. A company must market its products, and outside of price-fixing, which is illegal, there will always be a competitor who will undercut you. If I drive by two car lots, one with a sign that says, "Prices raised because of income tax hike," and another that says, "Buy here. My cars are cheaper. I'll take the hit on tax. I won't pass it down to you," which one do you think will sell cars? It's the difference between someone selling lots of cars at a lower margin and selling only a few at a higher margin. It's really basic economics at work here.

    You can't get away from the law of supply and demand. You just can't. That is how price is determined, not in the board rooms of corporations.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  5. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How bout instead of raising taxes, we do two things:
    -eliminate the loopholes that they use to avoid taxes
    -abolish the language of corporate 'personhood' (this is really just a big part of the first point)

    What possible benefit to society is allowing a group of people (a business) to hide behind a 'person' that only exists on paper? Surely business can be conducted without this...
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  6. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    If the tax is on their profit, they do it exactly the same way whether that profit is taxed or not. That is very much the point. If it is on something else, then that will affect their business decisions.

    You don't seem to understand that the effect of a tax is not determined by whom it is levied on, but what, and how.
    No they don't. Such decisions are totally unaffected by a tax on profits. You are just makin' $#!+ up.
    Sure. It's flat.
     
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  7. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    A tax on profits adds $0 to manufacturing costs.
    Why, did OPEC levy a tax on corporate profits?
     
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  8. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    The idea is that it makes more productive capital investment available by reducing and spreading risk. It seems to have been effective. Whether corporate personhood and limited liability are net benefits to society is still undecided. Some other system might work better.
     
  9. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    For reference:

    The Profit Maximization Rule states that if a firm chooses to maximize its profits, it must choose that level of output where Marginal Cost (MC) is equal to Marginal Revenue (MR) and the Marginal Cost curve is rising. In other words, it must produce at a level where MC = MR.

     
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  10. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    And you have failed to understand that tax increases affect all businesses. Prices will increase everywhere because the tax increases are effective everywhere.
     
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  11. hellofromwarsaw

    hellofromwarsaw Well-Known Member

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    When the hell was that in the 1960s? the GOP has obstructed everything the Democrats want since Reagan. Except for Obamacare when they had 60 votes for 35 days in session
     
  12. hellofromwarsaw

    hellofromwarsaw Well-Known Member

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    Cheap college and training for the 6 million tech jobs going begging right now . Thanks GOP period no sacrifice is too great to save the greedy idiot GOP mega Rich from paying their fair share. You are babbling
     
  13. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Tax policy affects the entire economy.
    That's a false assertion based on nothing. What is "effective everywhere" is irrelevant to price, as I showed with an example, which you haven't addressed. Which car would you buy? The one priced at $10,000 or the exact same car priced at $12,000?

    I'd have deep respect for your opinion if you could just admit to some simple truths, like the law of supply and demand. Then we could argue whether the fallacies promoted by the OP are a deliberate action of corporatists, or whether the OP is simply misinformed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  14. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    You have failed to understand that they do not affect all businesses in the same ways or to the same degree, let alone all prices. Google "tax incidence" and start reading.
    No. What prices will increase and how much depends on what is taxed, and how. You have failed to understand the concept of tax incidence. Google it and start reading. It's time.
     
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  15. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Reducing financial risk by spreading it around is a good idea. But corporate personhood is not required to accomplish that. But it also happens to reduce legal risk by allowing illegal actions to be blamed on the corporation instead of the humans who actually direct those illegal actions. I don't see how its anything but a shield against accountability. Of course, regulatory agencies love it as much as the corporations do because they get to collect fines instead of sending folks to prison. Its just another way for the elites, both on the public side and the private side to get more money at the expense of those of us who go to jail if we break the same laws ourselves without having our own corporation to blame it on. Due to this, its ultimately a way leverage out competition. Which undermines capital investment in the long run.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  16. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    So we disagree.
     
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You wouldn't respect my opinion if it was the last one on the planet.
     
  18. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because I am right and you are wrong.
     
  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I see.
     
  20. StarFox

    StarFox Banned

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    Getting democrat to grasp the idea of who actually pays corporate taxes is an impossible task, I have been trying for decades.
    Every democrat alive that has ever bought anything has paid a little extra for the corp tax, every democrat that has a job whose paycheck comes from a corporation perhaps makes a little less salary due to those taxes. No corporation has ever paid a tax without passing that cost on to the employee or the consumer or both.
     
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  21. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What part of our infrastructure was fixed under Obama?
     
  22. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You've never run a business I see.
     
  23. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It adds to overall cost.
     
  24. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When Obama put Biden in charge of the stimulus spending.
     
  25. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Read your own post.
     

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