We are about to see a check on honor and integrity.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lee Atwater, Sep 19, 2020.

  1. quiller

    quiller Well-Known Member

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    After writing this, I see Mitt Romney discovered the Constitution and chose not to play games like the detestable Collins and Murkowski. With Pence as the necessary swing vote it is now well within 50-50 that Trump will get his nomination approved...*IF* the jellyfish spineless GOP goes along, which I doubt. They'll wait until after the election fearing they'd LOSE the election, but let Trump have his obligation to the law fulfilled.
     
  2. quiller

    quiller Well-Known Member

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    Ernest Benn once said, "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."

    And Mark Twain said, "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself."

    Both truths are consistent with each other.
     
    fmw likes this.
  3. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, Trump has talked about ending the infinity wars, but his progress in doing so is a bit mixed and hasn't yet been achieved.

    In Afghanistan, the US continues to follow failed Vietnam era mixed military objectives and the latest DOD security paper is just more of the same bullshit.

    https://media.defense.gov/2020/Jul/...ING_SECURITY_AND_STABILITY_IN_AFGHANISTAN.PDF

    Drone strikes are supposedly up significantly compared with Obama's administration.

    Mattis resigned when Trump announced that he was abandoning our Kurd allies after returning from Brazil and another secret meeting with Putin.

    The DoD however overruled him and kept most of the troops in place, except for those that supported our Kurd allies.
     
  4. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why waste the time discussing anything? You believe what you want to believe- and these days, you can find any kind of claim you want on the internet.
    We are at a time where I'm sad to say, I don't think I've seen a respectable act or position taken by a democrat in five years. There is nothing to be gained and a great deal to be lost by making the entire process of government into a pissing match- taking the opposing position regardless of it's being right or wrong. Meantime... creating trouble instead of solving problems.

    Nobody can force others to believe anything; that is a process each person controls. When hate and garbage becomes broadcast like fodder to those eager to embrace anger- nothing makes sense.
    Thus, the opinions of those throwing bricks into the machinery just lacks all credibility. Keep thinking surely, there are still some in control of themselves, making up their own minds.
    Hope that happens one of these days, but it seems to be getting less and less likely.

    Some politicians want to keep everybody happy- and compromise everything. Trump wants to see things get done, and that will never please all- but it's the right things to do, the right way to see the job.
    Given the past, it sounds foolish to criticize it; it would be hard to do worse- yet, we have those working so hard to make things worse. I don't understand that now- and never will.
     
  5. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    No one is complaining that Trump isn't perfect.

    The complaint is that he is far too flawed to occupy the office.

    You cherry pick which of my points about Trump you choose to respond to and then go off the rails with your by now quite humorous observations such as, "People are to a geat extent, what they think."

    Espousing Oliver Twist type fantasies regarding politics and governing 330M people.

    All could be Billionaires if only they would apply themselves?

    It's not a zero sum game....

    Pffffffttt!

    Again, what are Trump's actual metrics while in office?

    Increasing deficits, increasing drone strikes, increasing farm bankruptcies, no major legislation other than a tax code revision, no health care, no infrastructure and $600/wk Covid Bonus?

    Andy Wang's minimum basic income is conservative compared to what Trump and McConnell have authorized.

    Your complaints about Ds are equally unbalanced in light of the pretzel logic twists, turns and contortions required to warp and fold Trump into Evangelical Conservative Spacetime by the Rs.

    What President has ever held divisive single party rallies continuously throughout his term of office?

    Good For You Spiritgide
     
  6. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump bows to the KSA.jpg
    Energy independence is a Trump achievement?

    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42735

    The amazing stability in the price at the pump of diesel and gasoline is a separate issue from the low price.

    The amazing stability is because refining fuel is such a well established and optimized business that there is little room for retail competition.

    The current rock bottom prices are due to two factors, Covid and KSA opening the valves.

    KSA has such a huge lead in crude production that they effectively control the cost of a barrel of crude oil.

    They could open their production even more and drop crude down to $20/bbl if they so desired.

    This has not been great for US Oil & Gas companies.

    You are aware that XOM was just replaced on the DJI by CRM with its whopping $19B in revenue....

    Wells in the US are being shut-in thanks to our good buddies over in the KSA.

    Your assertion that Trump is any different than any other President is certainly true, however he is constrained by a system that even he, assuming he's worthy of half of your adoration, is powerless to change.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  7. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    IF your opinion had anything to do with reality, you would have a lot more cred.
    You have a dodge for everything, because you chose to.
    And regardless of Trump's worth- the fact remains that there is no one else that is better for the job that is available, so unless you are a personal friend of Jesus and can get him to come down and take over, you need to scour the left to see if there is anyone that still has anything viable left. I think that will be a fruitless effort, but by all means, have at it.
    If you have nothing better- be grateful for what we have. Anarchy is not a better choice, no matter what they tell you.

    CRM is not an oil company- just a tech marketing scheme. Try running your car, or a nation with a lot of technology but no products. Being energy independent has forced the middle east sources to lower prices. Supply/demand- we don't have to have them anymore, so they no longer can squeeze us by lowering production. While they could force the price down- how would they keep all their subsidized people rich afloat?
     
  8. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    Which statement have I made that was merely my opinion?

    What have I dodged?

    You argue that Trump has the skills and is tough and then you crawfish and say that even if he doesn't there is no one better on the left?

    Ah, and now I need to be a friend, no, a personal friend of Jesus to do better than Trump?

    Interesting. I assume you let this discussion get the better of your passions with such a statement as this.

    Do please correct me if I'm wrong - are you an Evangelical that believes Trump has been chosen by God for this time and place?

    Who are the they that are telling me that anarchy is a better choice?

    A better choice than what?

    Are you claiming that Harris will be an anarchist?

    ********
    You may want to reread my post.

    I did not assert that CRM was an oil company.

    I offered the point that CRM recently replaced XOM on the DJI as a refutation that US energy independence is thriving when in fact it is in many ways hanging on by a thread.

    Don't complain to me about Dow Jones swapping CRM for XOM in its so called Industrials Index.

    You'll be preaching to the choir on that one.

    You obviously are completely ignorant of some of the positions I've posted here on PF.

    Not a problem though, I don't imagine I'm all that interesting, quite the opposite in fact.

    I assure you that I am quite familiar with oil and gas as you clearly demonstrate you are not.

    Supply and demand are a cause and effect relationship related to all economic activity, but I'll not be posting much beyond my knowledge level concerning economics, or, as another example, unified field theory.

    With regard to the US Oil and Gas industry and its robustness, it is currently getting hammered by an oversupply that has been unilaterally implemented by the KSA.

    The economics are reversed from those of the 1973 oil embargo.

    US and Canadian oil and gas independence thrives at or above about $100/bbl.
     
  9. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Garland was nominated by a lame duck President. Trump has something to lose if he makes an unpopular choice.....a second term. I doubt you'll see the difference.
     
  10. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You read what you want to see; ignore or distort that which you don't Waste of my time. Yours too, but then I have better use for mine and resent the foolishness of endless bantering arguments.

    People who discuss have objectives of understanding position. People who are just intent on argument have no position except "Im right, you are wrong" and refuse to acknowledge anything that doesn't fit there objective is right. It's pretty clear you are here only for that purpose. Of course these days, a person on the left that had any other purpose would be rare. it's kind of like logical democrats are going extinct. It's sad- but self-imposed. Unfortunately, what happens to America depends on all of us.

    A guy on a boat decides to drill a hole through the floor of his cabin.
    Of course- water flows in, and other passengers are pissed.
    The guy says, hey- it's my cabin, so it's none of your business and doesn't matter.

    Personal choice only goes so far when we're all on the same boat.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  11. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    I just learned an interesting wrinkle in all of this. It had seemed to me, of course, that the Repubs in the Senate were trying to have their cake & eat it too, under McConnell's hypocritical leadership. But in the thread, "History's on the side of Republicans..." in the CURRENT EVENTS forum, was a link to a story in the National Review--


    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020...cans-filling-a-supreme-court-vacancy-in-2020/

    -- that showed that, historically, this very partisan way of handling this situation has been the norm. Since a President's term is 4 years, it stands to reason that there would be a lot of election-year vacancies (a 1 out 4 chance that any vacancy will occur in an election year). In the overwhelming majority of those occurring when the Senate majority was different from the President's party, the seats went unfilled, while nearly all of those which came along when the President's party also enjoyed a majority in the Senate were, conversely, filled.

    I'm not saying, though, that this should settle the matter. Either Mitch McConnell had not been aware of this, or he chose to not make that argument, because that's not the way he made his case for denying Merrick Garland a Senate hearing & vote. And it's not surprising, to me, that we should be unfamiliar w/ this practice since-- I guess partly due to modern medicine-- most of these occurrences came in the 19th & early 20th centuries. Prior to Garland, it occurred w/ LBJ, & before that, you have to go back to FDR.

    Which brings me to the real question. Have our modern political sensibilities changed so much that this once-customary way of doing business is no longer acceptable to the people of our nation at large? The, "bonus-question," if we answer the first one in the affirmative, is will this potentially weaken a defense of any particular precedent in the future?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  12. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you believe McTreason has any interest in historical precedent regarding this matter you are sorely mistaken. His raison d'ĂŞtre is, and has been for some time, to pack the courts with conservative judges by any means available to him.
     
  13. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    One thing though. Democrats only think it's the right thing if a republican is the one making the nomination. In 2016 Democrats were completely against blocking Obama's nominations, both sides are the same way. The rules change depending on who's in power. This is why we need to take all supreme Court nominations out of the hands of politicians.. there needs to be a lottery system.

    There needs to be a system where there are multiple nominations, which are approved by Congress as well as the president, but then the final choice is done by random draw. Both parties get to nominate an equal amount of justices with the final choice being random. This would promote less partisan extremism in the nominations because they would be scared that the other sides extremists would be the ones being chosen.
     
  14. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    I have no doubt of that. Your quotation of my words leaves them open to misinterpretation. I began that paragraph saying that historical precedent should not, alone, settle the matter; and the remainder of the sentence from which you excerpted the quote was, "because that's not the way he made his case for denying Merrick Garland a Senate hearing & vote." I was just trying to analyze, considering the less than unanimity of American political opinions, how this current situation was being viewed & what possible paths for the future stand before us.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  15. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Again, your version of the future. Old school... Must be hard watching it all change
     
  16. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Merrick Garland.

    Mic drop.
     
  17. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Destruction of excellence and the embracing of ignorance, which can only result in the misery of all people- is not only hard to watch, it's stupid to allow.
    What works is never old school, it's what you build the future on.

    Change is something that is constant. The question is- does the change improve us, or degrade us. In the current environment, we have so many people degrading themselves they threaten the nation.
    The anarchy, the political dirty tricks, the inability to stand up for what's right, the hatred of any who don't agree, the unwillingness to build and the choice to destroy.... are changes. Apparently, ones you endorse.
     
  18. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    It surprised me to learn that the National Review so blatantly lied in this article.

    Dan McLaughlin, the author, can't even make it past his first paragraph without making a totally false assertion.

    https://www.senate.gov/legislative/nominations/SupremeCourtNominations1789present.htm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Warren#Retirement

    In 1968, D controlled the House, Senate and the Presidency and Earl Warren submitted his resignation to LBJ specifically to insure that his replacement would not be determined by Nixon.

    Dan's article in the National Review would have had a stronger impact if he had cited what was actually a historical precedent of staggering incompetence by the Ds.

    Ds had enough seats in the Senate to end the Filibuster and failed to do so thereby passing the nomination to Nixon.

    There are several other points that article gets wrong and makes sweepingly dramatic claims upon.

    There is no chain of historical precedent to support Dan's hyperbolic claims about partisan strategies affecting vacancies on the court going back to the beginning of the Republic.

    Senators weren't even elected until 1918:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    And the Senate didn't have formal party leadership positions until Ds started it in 1920 followed by the Rs in 1925.

    Then there was Anthony Kennedy, an R nominee, was confirmed by a D Senate on Feb 3, 1988 - a Presidential election year.

    The Scalia vacancy at about 422 days was the longest vacancy since the Civil War.

    He's not called Moscow Mitch for nothing.

    Putin smiles upon him, and his mushroom dick yeti pube daddy the Dirty Donald.
     
  19. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for a really well researched post. I'm sure I don't need to tell you not to expect a Trump supporter to respond in kind. It'll be more like........."you're just mad you lost the election, na-na-na-nah-na."
     
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  20. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    Gillian Anderson is so freaking hot that I know the truth is out there and I like to Google it.

    Hahaha...

    A reference to a show called the X-files for those that don't get it.

    This particular post actually gives team T some ammo as to why they should seat a nominee and move on.

    If I believed the crap so many of them seem to believe then I'd not for a second worry about any negative consequences from seating a new judge on the SC.

    Funny, their concern about sharia law when one of their passions is to overturn Roe v Wade and remove all forms of public safety nets.

    This post also casts aside team T lame attempts to position McConnell's dereliction of duty to his oath of office by refusing to act on the Scalia vacancy as no big deal, par-for-the-course politics.
     
  21. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    You seem exceedingly confident that your support of Trump doesn't make you the guy in the boat drilling through the floor of his cabin.
     
  22. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no defense for what McTreason did and is doing. Only contrived rationalizations.
     
  23. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    It does nothing of the kind. There was no actual Biden Rule .
     
  24. Papastox

    Papastox Well-Known Member

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    What would Democrats know about honor and integrity? Absolutely NOTHING!! I don’t think they can even spell the words...
     
  25. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    haha dude the video of biden cresting and then chucky s reaffirmed
     

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